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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Why the 6?

I am obviously not a gear head enthusiast like some of you on here worrying about a half second difference in a 0-60 test.
What does it matter in real life driving?
Said before and will say again.... if you are concerned about drag start times, Mazda is probably the wrong car and so is the Accord that is getting so much comparisons on this forum.
If you are looking for bragging rights on HP or stop watch times, then you should jump over to the Stinger GT forum or one of the overpriced German made cars.
I started out convinced I wanted a Stinger GT2 for $52k. But then reality set in that when I pull out of my garage to head to work, nobody was going to be in the passenger seat with a stop watch!

So I prioritized what I REALLY wanted out of my next car, and that list was:
1. Good looking car inside and out.
2. Fun to drive car. With some zoom.
3. All the luxury comforts of Nappa leather, heads up display, ventilated/cooled seats.
4. Reliable and low cost maintenance.
5. Prefer to stay under $40k

So that ruled out the beloved Stinger and all the Badge Envy cars like Audi, BMW & Lexus. So I heard about this newly released Mazda 6 Signature trim. Which in my opinion compares (price wise) with the Camry, Accord, Maxima and Passat.

When comparing these to the new Mazda, item #1 on my wish list above makes the Mazda stand out.
Call me vain, but the Honda, Toyota, Nissan all have ugly front ends. The 6 has a beautiful look from the front and side profile. And I even like the Mazda “wings” logo better then the tired look of the others.
(Side note: If you go to the Stinger GT forum, they are all removing the KIA logo and replacing with other badges - lol)

I test drove the New Turbo 6 and other then wanting to replace the tires for some better rubber, the car drives nice and is plenty fast.
I may not win a stop watch comparison, but then again most of my acceleration will come from a rolling start or passing some slow poke at highway speeds.
And when I am Zoom zooming past them, I will be doing so in the comfort of my Nappa cooled seats while watching my speed on the heads up display, and listening to my Bose stereo and checking my full list of blind spot indicators. All while looking good doing it and keeping $10k or more in the bank!

If you are about the stop watch, go buy a Mustang, Dodge or Camero. If you want a really nice car that doesn’t look like every other car at the intersection, then buy the Mazda.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 09:24 AM
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My priorities are/were very similar to yours (looks were not on top) and after driving almost all the cars (and more) you mentioned we bought 6 Signature.

We did want quiet comfort with good driving dynamics and acceptable rear seat. A number of options in the 50-80K range but the Mazda6 gives a great compromise at a reasonable price.
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 10:19 AM
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 08:45 PM
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Because of the mpg and comfort and Mazda makes good vehicles.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-27-2018, 10:54 PM
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As an overall package, The Mazda 6 is really tough to beat. It inspires even the most mundane drivers to explore the potential and involvement levels of the chassis. The vehicle responds eagerly with a very natural, organic feel giving more expensive and faster cars a real run for their money based on chassis tuning alone. This car really goes to show you that a balanced chassis all in a neat, well-tuned package is so crucial for a daily driver. The 2.5L makes good torque, has proven to be very reliable, has potential to make great power with Orange Virus tuning, and is paired to a selection of an auto or manual transmission both of which are excellent.

The 2.5L NA engine in the Toyota Camry makes about 18HP more than Mazda's, has two extra gears yet is still slower. It's a bit more efficient, but one key thing to note is the Max Torque rating. Both engines make the same 185ft/lb of torque, except the Mazda peaks at 3250RPM while the Camry does not peak until 5000RPM - downright dissapointing for it's displacement especially considering Toyota makes good engines. There is a reason why they bought a share from Mazda and plan to use their tech. My point is, Mazda's engine/transmission tuning is second to none in it's price category. For such a small car company, they have really forced Honda to step their game with the Accord and are seriously punching above their weight for rather limited budgeting and resources.

I could care less for a cabin full of fancy electronic gadgets that do nothing but distract you from the driving experience. I wanted a fun, purposeful driver-focused vehicle that gets you from point A to B with good usable torque, a playful chassis and even the MPG has proven to be quite good. Are there more reliable choices out there? Yes, the Camry is one. The Honda Accord makes a compelling argument against the 6 by being a bit faster and offering a manual transmission with the upgraded engine, but the Mazda edges it out slightly with outright driving feel.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 01:33 PM
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I couldn't care less about zoom zooming. This is the first car I've owned that had a 0 to 60 of less than 10 seconds. To me it's the fastest car out there.

For me it was between this, the Camry, or the Accord. I had to have a Japanese (read: reliable, which excludes Nissan) car.

The Accord was ok, but gripping the steering wheel was downright unpleasant. It just digs into your hands, and made me wonder if anyone at Honda actually tried holding the steering wheel before making them that way.

The Camry was better, but my dad's old 2003 Camry has more comfortable seats than the newer ones. The new 2018 Camry is just obnoxious; the turn signals make this cheesy "ding ding" noise instead of clicks. Also any time you pressed a button that it didn't like it would obnoxiously start beeping at you like "oh you pressed the Back button and you're already as far back as you can go, you must be an idiot! Here's the idiot alarm so you know you're an idiot". Also, the 8 speed transmission couldn't figure out what gear it wanted to be in and would repeatedly shift, even multiple times a second.

The older Camrys (2012-2017) were better, but not the most comfortable. The interior felt cheap, with flimsy plastics and creaky compartment hinges. They also get abysmal gas mileage.

The Mazda 6 was initially a last resort on my list of cars, but when I finally tried one, I was blown away. Besides being the best looking car of the three by a wide margin, the interior looks amazing. Everything feels and looks well thought-out and downright luxurious. While Toyota and Honda have to save their nicest designs for their premium brand cars, Mazda puts it all in the flagship 6. The seats are like nothing I've ever sat in before. It's like they hug you. They keep you in an upright position and it's actually comfortable! In most cars I tend to slouch on longer trips, but not so on the 6.

Anyway I could go on about this, but suffice it to say, I'm very impressed with what this car offers and can't comprehend why so few people are buying them. The Camry sells 10 times as many units per year, and the accord sells around 7 or 8 times as many. Blows my mind. But whatever, the car wouldn't be as nice if everyone else also had one.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
I couldn't care less about zoom zooming. This is the first car I've owned that had a 0 to 60 of less than 10 seconds. To me it's the fastest car out there.
the NA Mazda 6 is just fast enough for passing, driving enjoyment etc. about 215ft/lb of torque from the OV Tune would be optimal but still not considered fast.

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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
(read: reliable, which excludes Nissan) car.
Nissan used to be just as reliable and well built as Toyota back in the 90's, except far more fun to drive. After Renault saved the company and took over, quality quickly went down. Nissan's engines are old designs and quite reliable, but their CVT's are shit. I wouldn't say they are much less reliable than Mazda though. The current generation Altima is just very outdated and bland.

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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
The Camry was better, but my dad's old 2003 Camry has more comfortable seats than the newer ones.
Because the car is older. Seats are more worn-in VS. a brand new car.

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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
Also, the 8 speed transmission couldn't figure out what gear it wanted to be in and would repeatedly shift, even multiple times a second.
Transmission tuning. BMW's 8 speed feels perfectly calibrated. Toyota's 2.5L has more power and more gears yet is still slower than Mazda's. Mazda's 2.5L torque peak is at 3250RPM VS. 5000RPM in the Toyota (dissapointing for a 2.5L)

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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
The older Camrys (2012-2017) were better, but not the most comfortable. The interior felt cheap, with flimsy plastics and creaky compartment hinges. They also get abysmal gas mileage.
I agree. Low point for Toyota. They got lazy and are just riding the brand image wave during this stage. This is why they bought a share from Mazda recently to use their tech. Mazda seems to have forced Toyota + Honda to step up their game with the midsize sedans big-time recently.

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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
The Mazda 6 was initially a last resort on my list of cars, but when I finally tried one, I was blown away.
This is very typical for the average buyer looking into Toyota and Honda. Mazda just doesn't have the brand image or reputation yet but they are getting there.

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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
I'm very impressed with what this car offers and can't comprehend why so few people are buying them. But whatever, the car wouldn't be as nice if everyone else also had one.
Not whatever. Mazda deserves to sell just as many units of this car as Honda. It's just unfair. Even the Malibu is outselling the 6 which is a piece of garbage car. I am glad Mazda is still updating and selling the 6 despite such a low volume of sales though.

Last edited by Get Inline; 09-05-2018 at 02:28 PM.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamadoorknob View Post
For me it was between this, the Camry, or the Accord. I had to have a Japanese (read: reliable, which excludes Nissan) car.

The Accord was ok, but gripping the steering wheel was downright unpleasant. It just digs into your hands, and made me wonder if anyone at Honda actually tried holding the steering wheel before making them that way.

The Camry was better, but my dad's old 2003 Camry has more comfortable seats than the newer ones. The new 2018 Camry is just obnoxious; the turn signals make this cheesy "ding ding" noise instead of clicks. Also any time you pressed a button that it didn't like it would obnoxiously start beeping at you like "oh you pressed the Back button and you're already as far back as you can go, you must be an idiot! Here's the idiot alarm so you know you're an idiot". Also, the 8 speed transmission couldn't figure out what gear it wanted to be in and would repeatedly shift, even multiple times a second.

The older Camrys (2012-2017) were better, but not the most comfortable. The interior felt cheap, with flimsy plastics and creaky compartment hinges. They also get abysmal gas mileage.

The Mazda 6 was initially a last resort on my list of cars, but when I finally tried one, I was blown away. Besides being the best looking car of the three by a wide margin, the interior looks amazing. Everything feels and looks well thought-out and downright luxurious. While Toyota and Honda have to save their nicest designs for their premium brand cars, Mazda puts it all in the flagship 6. The seats are like nothing I've ever sat in before. It's like they hug you. They keep you in an upright position and it's actually comfortable! In most cars I tend to slouch on longer trips, but not so on the 6.

Anyway I could go on about this, but suffice it to say, I'm very impressed with what this car offers and can't comprehend why so few people are buying them. The Camry sells 10 times as many units per year, and the accord sells around 7 or 8 times as many. Blows my mind. But whatever, the car wouldn't be as nice if everyone else also had one.
I could have written this word for word 10 months ago when I was shopping for a new car.

I bought a (new) 2017 GT with tech and premium package (which would be equivalent to the signature package in 2018).
The new Accord and Camry had just been released, and I looked at both.
The new Camry was/is butt ugly, and the new Accord wasn't/isn't much better. The Honda 1.5l engine and CVT wasn't even worth consideration.
The sport level Accord with the 8 speed may be quicker, but like you said, that transmission can't make up it's mind.

The previous gen 2017 Camry was as cheaply built as can be. Horrible hard plastics everywhere. Nissan was not even on the radar.
After 10 months of ownership, I am very happy with the car.
I can't understand why it sells so poorly either, although Mazda is partly to blame, as there is no marketing effort for it all. It's all focused on the CX-5.
Secondly, people are sheep, and 99% of Camry or Accord buyers have not done any research, or cross shopping. The 6 is not even on their radar. Sad really.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 04:01 PM
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Not whatever. Mazda deserves to sell just as many units of this car as Honda. It's just unfair. Even the Malibu is outselling the 6 which is a piece of garbage car. I am glad Mazda is still updating and selling the 6 despite such a low volume of sales though.
Deserve to? Debatable. I definitely believe Mazda has been knocking it out of the park lately, and I also believe that the 6 is the best sub $30k midsize sedan on the market.

The reason I personally think they aren't selling as well is because when someone looks at buying a Japanese car, they are generally doing so for the superior reliability. When someone prefers sportiness over reliability, they often look to American brand cars. Toyota and Honda have proven themselves over decades to be market leaders in the durability of their powertrains.

Mazda has been somewhat hit-or-miss over the years, particularly in their turbocharged vehicles, and so they don't have that perceived image of being a durable brand. Also keep in mind that there was a period where Ford had a controlling interest in Mazda, which only ended in 2012. Ford, a company that seemingly has zero interest in producing reliable vehicles, almost certainly pushed Mazda toward "money first, quality last" production, and that will have hurt their brand name.

Toyota and Honda are also known as pioneers, breaking into the market with their VVT and VTEC engines in the 80s, which proved to be the most reliable and fuel efficient engines out there. They still use those engine designs today.

Mazda, I believe, is on the up and up. They are onto something great with their Skyactiv design. They've managed to design the best VVT engines to date. I believe that they will also prove to be reliable engines. Mazda has a good chance to make a name for themselves among the "prestige" Japanese brands. But as the 15th largest automaker in the world, they've got a long fight to the top.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 05:47 PM
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Deserve to? Debatable. I definitely believe Mazda has been knocking it out of the park lately, and I also believe that the 6 is the best sub $30k midsize sedan on the market.

The reason I personally think they aren't selling as well is because when someone looks at buying a Japanese car, they are generally doing so for the superior reliability. When someone prefers sportiness over reliability, they often look to American brand cars. Toyota and Honda have proven themselves over decades to be market leaders in the durability of their powertrains.

Mazda has been somewhat hit-or-miss over the years, particularly in their turbocharged vehicles, and so they don't have that perceived image of being a durable brand. Also keep in mind that there was a period where Ford had a controlling interest in Mazda, which only ended in 2012. Ford, a company that seemingly has zero interest in producing reliable vehicles, almost certainly pushed Mazda toward "money first, quality last" production, and that will have hurt their brand name.

Toyota and Honda are also known as pioneers, breaking into the market with their VVT and VTEC engines in the 80s, which proved to be the most reliable and fuel efficient engines out there. They still use those engine designs today.

Mazda, I believe, is on the up and up. They are onto something great with their Skyactiv design. They've managed to design the best VVT engines to date. I believe that they will also prove to be reliable engines. Mazda has a good chance to make a name for themselves among the "prestige" Japanese brands. But as the 15th largest automaker in the world, they've got a long fight to the top.
So you're telling me some garbage Chevrolet Malibu riding simply on brand image built from a government corporate bailout deserves more sales than Mazda? Do you think Mazda is less reliable than Hyundai/Kia? Not that Kia is a bad vehicle, but they built their reputation from tons of stupid features which consumers like as standard. Mazda is trying to build their reputation purely from a driving enjoyment perspective. What percentage of the population do you think prioritizes performance and chassis feel over everything else? When you are looking for performance, you don't go to the Americans unless you're stupid. You look at the European choices such as BMW or Porsche. What the Japanese do well is balancing the convenience of a reliable, well made vehicle with good performance and driving dynamics all at a reasonable price. You made a good point about Ford's influence on Mazda. Very good point. This is what really hurt Mazda's reputation. But do you see what they are building now that they actually have some money? The 2.5L engine, both NA or turbo are excellent motors and the NA version is honestly one of the most reliable engines on the market. Honda's 1.5T is full of fuel dilution issues. Mazda has clearly got their DI game sorted out far better than it's competition.

I don't see anything special about the majority of Honda's engine designs. The K series 4 cylinders and J series V6's are both good, but everything else they have built is shit except for maybe the newest 2.0T. However, suspiciously enough i stumbled across one a picture of the Accord's engine bay and the layout of that motor looked a hell of a lot similar to what Mazda is currently building. I looked at some Nissan, even Hyundai engine bays and they all look literally the same. It's obvious to me that Mazda is now leading the pack with their drivetrain tuning + reliability has proven to be very good so far with the NA 2.5L.
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