Recommened tires for the wagon? Kumho, Bridgestone, BFG, Conti, Yoko??? - Page 4 - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-01-2013, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Finally purchased a set...

Just placed my order on TireRack and got 6 month financing thru Bill Me Later!

I completely did a 180 and changed my mind about which set to purchase. I ended up getting Kumho Ecsta LE Sports for $461.36 shipped to the shop for install. Ended up getting the stock 215/50 size...again, price was too good to pass up. I did decide to get a summer only vs an all-season warrior.

They just started new rebates for April and I will get a $50 rebate from Kumho. That works out to $102.84 shipped per tire including the rebate. I estimate installation to be about $70.

I hope I don't kick myself for going with the Kumhos after bad experiences with my wife's car, but I couldn't pass up the deal. They have gotten mostly great reviews from people that drive much more sporty vehicles than my wagon...911s, M3s, etc. What's the worst that can happen, right?

Plus, I am hoping that I can convince the wife to let me get some Mazdaspeed springs with the money that I saved from switching to the Kumhos from the Dunlops that I was gonna get (that would have been like $640 shipped...).
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-05-2013, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Got the Kumhos installed yesterday. So far they are great! Quiet, plenty of grip, and look pretty decent too. I will continue to follow up with a review of the tires as time goes on.

I did end up ordering a set of the Mazdaspeed springs from a local dealer and they should be here within the next week or so, hopefully. I am super excited about dropping it!

While they were mounting the tires, I had the luxury of going out to check on my car as it was on the lift (the store manager happened to be a Mazda guy too!). He pointed out that I need a new passenger side half shaft as the outer boot is cracked and is slinging grease everywhere (most notably on the alternator). Not too happy about that...I am a a DIYer for the most part, but I am a little hesitant about pulling a CV halfshaft out...

The 3 techs were quite impressed with the car as 5-speed wagons are pretty rare, especially options out as mine is with leather, sunroof, and BOSE. They liked what I have done to it so far and are excited to see it after I get my springs in (as I will be taking it back there for an alignment and (most likely) to replace the CV....
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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by posttosh View Post
Among the many tires that we have had on our wagon were a pair of Hankook Ventus V12s, which -- unusually for us -- we ran only at the front; we never had them at the rear. (We tend to buy tires in pairs, mount the new tires on the rear, and move the formerly rear tires to the front, where we run them until they wear out; that is the extent of our "rotation.") There is some water dispersal advantage to a directional tread design (such as the V12's) mounted at the front, but no advantage at the rear, when the tires will be running in the tracks cleared by the front tires a small fraction of a second before. OTOH, asymmetric tires make sense at all four positions, as the inner and outer sidewalls of a tire have different tasks in lateral acceleration.

Back to the V12s: ours wore better than other tires we have run that had the same UTQG Treadwear rating. Also -- and we may have just been lucky with our specific pair -- the V12s required less compensatory weights on the wheel than most other tires we have mounted have required, and, throughout their entire life, the V12s never leaked any air. All tires leak some air, of course, but we check all of our tires every two weeks or so, and we very rarely had to add any compensatory air to the V12s to keep them right where we want them (34.5 psi to 35 psi for the rear tires, 36.5 psi to 37 psi for the fronts). All in all, the V12 was a satisfactory tire for us, and certainly a bargain at its price.

The Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT tires now mounted at the rear are perhaps the best tires we have had on this wagon -- and that is saying a lot, because, among the tires that we have mounted are included some exotic (and expensive) Yokohama ADVAN Sports, which are fantastic handlers, but wear very rapidly.

In over five decades of driving, where I have had literally hundreds of tires on my cars, we have had only four tires that failed in the sidewall; three of those four were Continentals, the most recent being a Continental ExtremeContact DW that failed on us this past summer with only about 1,000 miles on it. Even with the number of tires that we have run over the years, we comprise a small sample, so such statistics are anecdotal only; but I finally have learned my lesson: the replacement tire that I bought last summer to replace the ExtremeContact DW was another DW, to match the other almost-new tire across the axle, but it will be the last Conti I ever buy. The DW is built around a casing ("sidewall ply" in DOT-speak) of a single layer of polyester, which makes it supple and weak. In contrast, the Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT uses a two-ply carcass construction -- and the material is rayon, which is superior to polyester both in strength and linearity over a wide temperature range. The only reason any tire maker would use polyester for the casing is price -- it is a sign that the tire maker is cheaping out on you, just as a Macpherson strut front suspension tells you that the car maker would rather save $5 in the construction of the car than give you a superior double-wishbone link.
Hi there, I have been following this tire thread and have been researching the Dunlop tires you are recommending, posttosh.

I have the 2005 6 sport wagon (manual) (purchased in 2007) and was happy with my standard Michelin Pilots that came with it, went to the Primacy and hated them and went back to the Pilots. I now need new tires and the Dunlops sounds like what I want. However, I have had nothing done to my car, I simply love to drive it and have fun shifting through turns, corners and whatnot. I also drive about 400 highway miles a week. So it's a bit of both.

I had contacted a local tire place today who orders through tirerack and they tried to talk me into the BFG Super Sport TAS (I think I have that right.) They feel that they will get longer wear than the Dunlops, but since I'm not that knowledgeable about tires, I figured I'd run it by people here. I don't want to get tires that aren't right for me, especially since I don't race my car or anything, I just love to DRIVE it.

I am in the Philly, PA area so I go through all seasons, but I enjoy driving my car and hated the soft and rolling feeling when I briefly had the Primacys on my car.

Do you have any thoughts? Thanks for any advice you have.
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteFiber View Post
Hi there, I have been following this tire thread and have been researching the Dunlop tires you are recommending, posttosh.

I have the 2005 6 sport wagon (manual) (purchased in 2007) and was happy with my standard Michelin Pilots that came with it, went to the Primacy and hated them and went back to the Pilots. I now need new tires and the Dunlops sounds like what I want. However, I have had nothing done to my car, I simply love to drive it and have fun shifting through turns, corners and whatnot. I also drive about 400 highway miles a week. So it's a bit of both.
It is a matter of priorities: every tire is a bunch of compromises, and you need to give up something to get something. For me, the very most important thing that a tire needs to do is to stop the car when it is called upon to do so; everything else is secondary -- though serendipitously there is a very high correlation between a tire's ability to stop the car and its precision and quickness of steering response.

There is a rough but strong inverse correlation between a tire's "stickiness" -- braking and cornering ability -- and treadwear. Tire makers know a lot about how to make a tire last forever, and they make tires with 500-600-700 UTQG Treadwear ratings for the deranged people who think that Treadwear is the be-all and end-all. The very high Treadwear rating tires will ride harshly, genrally are fairly noisy, and -- worst of all, to my mind -- don't stop worth a damn. That does not mean that a LOW Treadwear rating is a figure of merit; nobody wants to change tires every six months. But there is a sweet spot in UTQG Treadwear around 300; I have had some excellent tires that had 280 Treadwear ratings.

There is a nearly absolute inverse relationship between the capability of a non-M&S (deep lug, wide gaps between tread blocks) tire to grip in snow and the tire's ability to stop on wet pavement. Snow traction for a nearly smooth surfaced tire requires chemical modification of the tread compound to counter the natural proclivity of rubber to shed moisture; snow traction, that is, requires that the tire NOT shed water from the tread. But retained water between the tread and the pavement is anathema to good braking response; it is a straight trade-off. That is why we never fit "all-season" tires to our car. All-season tires are almost as useless as other non-winter tires in deep snow, and are generally crappy in melted slush for the same reason they are dangerous on rainy days; the only time they have their day in the sun, as it were, is in a light snow condition, before the snow gets too deep, and before it melts down to slush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFiber View Post
I had contacted a local tire place today who orders through tirerack and they tried to talk me into the BFG Super Sport TAS (I think I have that right.) They feel that they will get longer wear than the Dunlops, but since I'm not that knowledgeable about tires, I figured I'd run it by people here. I don't want to get tires that aren't right for me, especially since I don't race my car or anything, I just love to DRIVE it.
BFG is a Michelin brand, and Michelin uses it in much the same way that Goodyear has used the Kelly Springfield brand over the years. There are cosmetic differences, but mostly BFGs these days are previous generation Michelin designs with lipstick.

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Originally Posted by WhiteFiber View Post
I am in the Philly, PA area so I go through all seasons, but I enjoy driving my car and hated the soft and rolling feeling when I briefly had the Primacys on my car.

Do you have any thoughts? Thanks for any advice you have.
If I lived in Philly, I definitely would run real winter tires (probably Hankook Ice Bears, unless I felt rich enough to get Nokians) from Thanksgiving through St. Patrick's Day, and serious non-"all-season" tires from St. Patrick's Day through Thanksgiving. The Hankook Ventus V12 is a hard tire to bet against, as it is excellent in the dry and wet, and is about as economical a three+ season tire as you will find. I have run the Ventus on our Mazda6 wagon, and they were excellent. The Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT is simply a slightly better tire -- but not by a huge margin.

Last edited by posttosh; 04-12-2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: spell check
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 08:14 PM
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Just put my potenza re760 sports on the other day. I am quite surprised with them so far. Very quiet considering the aggressive tread pattern & give quite good grip in the wet.

Its been raining here for the past few days so ive been able to somewhat test them out in wet conditions. Still have yet to push their cornering ability in wet conditions.

Cant wait for dry, warm weather to really see what they can do.


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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Just put my potenza re760 sports on the other day. I am quite surprised with them so far. Very quiet considering the aggressive tread pattern & give quite good grip in the wet.

Its been raining here for the past few days so ive been able to somewhat test them out in wet conditions. Still have yet to push their cornering ability in wet conditions.

Cant wait for dry, warm weather to really see what they can do.


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That's awesome! Glad that they are doing well in the rain. That was my one worry due to their tread pattern. I am really eager to hear your review of them throughout the summer. Keep us up to date!

I am quite happy with my choice in the Kumhos so far. Again, it hasn't been many miles, but they have handled everything I've thrown at the so far very well. Cant wait to get my Mazdaspeed springs to feel how they are when my wagon is lowered.
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 01:45 PM
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I now need new tires and the Dunlops sounds like what I want.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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If you're still looking. The v12's are the best fucking tires I've ever owned. Dead quiet, soft sidewalls, great even treadwear and look new after a year, insane grip (honestly even more than my Star Specs), and they're relatively cheap. If you don't need tires for snow, I can't recommend anything but these. As long as they're made, they're all I'm going to run for DD.


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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 04:39 PM
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If you're still looking. The v12's are the best fucking tires I've ever owned. ... I can't recommend anything but these. As long as they're made, they're all I'm going to run for DD.
Tire Test: Nine Affordable Summer Tires Take On the Michelin PS2 Comparison Tests - Page 10 - Car and Driver
. . . but frankly, when we had Hankook Ventus V12s on our Mazda6 wagon, they never, not even once, engaged in fornication.

These spider charts are interesting, and worth examination, too:

Tire Test Results : Testing Value-Priced Max Performance Summer Tires
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:57 AM
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It is a matter of priorities: every tire is a bunch of compromises, and you need to give up something to get something. For me, the very most important thing that a tire needs to do is to stop the car when it is called upon to do so; everything else is secondary -- though serendipitously there is a very high correlation between a tire's ability to stop the car and its precision and quickness of steering response.

There is a rough but strong inverse correlation between a tire's "stickiness" -- braking and cornering ability -- and treadwear. Tire makers know a lot about how to make a tire last forever, and they make tires with 500-600-700 UTQG Treadwear ratings for the deranged people who think that Treadwear is the be-all and end-all. The very high Treadwear rating tires will ride harshly, genrally are fairly noisy, and -- worst of all, to my mind -- don't stop worth a damn. That does not mean that a LOW Treadwear rating is a figure of merit; nobody wants to change tires every six months. But there is a sweet spot in UTQG Treadwear around 300; I have had some excellent tires that had 280 Treadwear ratings.

There is a nearly absolute inverse relationship between the capability of a non-M&S (deep lug, wide gaps between tread blocks) tire to grip in snow and the tire's ability to stop on wet pavement. Snow traction for a nearly smooth surfaced tire requires chemical modification of the tread compound to counter the natural proclivity of rubber to shed moisture; snow traction, that is, requires that the tire NOT shed water from the tread. But retained water between the tread and the pavement is anathema to good braking response; it is a straight trade-off. That is why we never fit "all-season" tires to our car. All-season tires are almost as useless as other non-winter tires in deep snow, and are generally crappy in melted slush for the same reason they are dangerous on rainy days; the only time they have their day in the sun, as it were, is in a light snow condition, before the snow gets too deep, and before it melts down to slush.


BFG is a Michelin brand, and Michelin uses it in much the same way that Goodyear has used the Kelly Springfield brand over the years. There are cosmetic differences, but mostly BFGs these days are previous generation Michelin designs with lipstick.



If I lived in Philly, I definitely would run real winter tires (probably Hankook Ice Bears, unless I felt rich enough to get Nokians) from Thanksgiving through St. Patrick's Day, and serious non-"all-season" tires from St. Patrick's Day through Thanksgiving. The Hankook Ventus V12 is a hard tire to bet against, as it is excellent in the dry and wet, and is about as economical a three+ season tire as you will find. I have run the Ventus on our Mazda6 wagon, and they were excellent. The Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT is simply a slightly better tire -- but not by a huge margin.

Thank you for this thoughtful and educational response. I'm sorry I didn't see it earlier, as I'm used to other message boards where I receive an email if someone responds. In any case, I haven't made a decision yet, but everyone has given me food for thought. Thanks again for taking the time to explain it to me.

After reading what you wrote, I am wondering, do you have a favorite that I can just leave on? I admittedly do not change my tires according to the seasons, but now know not to trust the all season tires. Or do you completely recommend against picking a set and leaving them on? (I'm thinking storage for one, as well as $$$)

I'm enjoying this message board since I found it two weeks ago. I have had my car 5.5 years and have seriously only seen the same car on the road maybe 10 times. So it's nice to know that there are enthusiasts out there for the Mazda wagons!

Now back to the decision making...
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