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post #51 of 304 (permalink) Old 08-09-2006, 11:01 AM
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PLEASE NOTE!!!! DUE TO LEGALITIES THAT WENT INTO EFFECT SEPTEMBER 1, 2005, THE INFORMATION CONTAINED BELOW IS FOR MAZDA 6 MODEL YEARS 2003-2005!!! FOR INFORMATION REGARDING MODEL YEAR 2006 AND UP, PLEASE CONTACT MAZDA USA OR YOUR LOCAL MAZDA DEALER!!!!
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What legalities went into effect back then?... are these critial for choosing wheel/tire combo?
my 6i is 2006. Just got it 2 weeks ago.
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post #52 of 304 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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What legalities went into effect back then?... are these critial for choosing wheel/tire combo?
my 6i is 2006. Just got it 2 weeks ago.
[/b]
This was a "cover my butt" disclaimer due to the TREAD Act, which certain portions went into effect last September. I was advised by higher-ups at Toyo not to make recommendations for ANY vehicle model year '06 and up. There were no changes made in tire sizes from model year '05 to '06, so you can make reasonable assumptions on what fits the '06 model.

If we decide to issue a fitment guide for '06 cars, I will remove the disclaimer.

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post #53 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 06:04 AM
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post #54 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 02:34 AM
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Hey Guys, I&#39;ve done a lot of searching and reading on the tire/wheel size topics, so I&#39;d appreciate not getting any "do your search" responses.

I&#39;m in Japan and am driving a JDM 2005 Atenza 23S (5dr. Sport) that came with Mazda-spec 215/45 R17&#39;s (total diameter 24.62in.). Intersetingly Mazda Japan says that the speedo and odo are calibrated to this tire/wheel size.

Given that the roads in Shiga Japan absolutely suck, I&#39;m thinking of minus sizing to 215/55 R16&#39;s (total diameter 25.31 in, 1% bigger than the stock). I have not selected a wheel but it looks like a 55mm offset would work.

I&#39;ve contacted Mazda Japan and their response was non-commital. Their legally Japan-registered (tested/recommended) tire sizes are 205/55R16s or 195/65R15&#39;s which are narrower and smaller in diameter, not something I want (I&#39;d rather have larger wheel diameter).

Comments? Anyone have 215/55R16&#39;s?? I&#39;ve searched hi and low but noone here in this forum seems to have this size, and I&#39;ve checked other forums as well. Thanks in advance!!

If you wanna see pics of my car they are here:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread....1142&page=2

(Edit)
p.s. Other than my Mazdaspeed seat, absolutely no mods (i.e. Suspension is original eq.).
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post #55 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 04:26 AM
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I&#39;m in Japan and am driving a JDM 2005 Atenza 23S (5dr. Sport) that came with Mazda-spec 215/45 R17&#39;s (total diameter 24.62in.). Intersetingly Mazda Japan says that the speedo and odo are calibrated to this tire/wheel size.
[/b]
Those Dunlop SPs you currently run have an 87 load rating. If those are stock from Mazda&#39;s Hiroshima assembly line, that spec makes very interesting data point for the sporadic question here about what is the minimum load rating for the Mazda6.

Quote:
Given that the roads in Shiga Japan absolutely suck,
[/b]
Sonna ni hidoi no? Dono hen? I haven&#39;t seen roads that were "absolutely suck" bad in the Kanto area for years. (But then there are not all that many places you can go more than about 50 km/hr either. Is this a jar-the-tailbone issue because you have the Mazdaspeed seat, or is it a worry about tire/rim damage from the low profile?

Quote:
I&#39;m thinking of minus sizing to 215/55 R16&#39;s (total diameter 25.31 in, 1% bigger than the stock).
[/b]
Have you measured any mounted on a wheel, or are you going on the basis of a tire calculator? Because of the granularity of tire size designations, any given tire, when mounted, could easily be more than that 1% larger than the calculator shows (exascerbating the problem) or more than 1% smaller (giving you a baby bear "just right" for your application). Most of the 215/55-16 tires have a load rating of 93, whichh would be a nice bonus.

Quote:
I have not selected a wheel but it looks like a 55mm offset would work.
[/b]
Assuming that the Japanese-spec Atenza comes stock with the same 60mm offset 17x7 wheels that the US-spec Mazda6 does, you should be o.k. with a tire that is just 10mm wider in section width. The problem, if any, would be rubbing the fender in the rear, but the dimensions would be so close, it would be a problem certainly remediable by rolling the fender.

Quote:
I&#39;ve contacted Mazda Japan and their response was non-commital. Their legally Japan-registered (tested/recommended) tire sizes are 205/55R16s or 195/65R15&#39;s which are narrower and smaller in diameter, not something I want (I&#39;d rather have larger wheel diameter).

Comments?
[/b]
If Mazda Japan approves 205/55-16, then it is very likely that a 215/55-16 will work just fine. I have yet to see the instance where going a mere 10mm wider from factory spec within the same aspect ratio caused a problem. (Of course, there is always a first time .)

Can you get Goodyear Eagle GS-D3 tires there? In the U.S., at least, they are available in the 215/55-16 size. Nice tire.
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post #56 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 06:48 AM
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Posttosh, thanks for your response. Interesting info in some of your questions. My responses are interspersed:

Quote:
Those Dunlop SPs you currently run have an 87 load rating. If those are stock from Mazda&#39;s Hiroshima assembly line, that spec makes very interesting data point for the sporadic question here about what is the minomum load rating for the Mazda6.
[/b]
Yes, the OEM tires are Dunlop SP Sport 8090&#39;s 215/45R17 87W&#39;s. I&#39;ve seen them on TireRack as OEM tires for the RX8&#39;s in the U.S.
FYI, for the 205/55R16&#39;s Mazda Japan recommended 89V&#39;s and for the 195/65R15, 91H&#39;s.


Quote:
Sonna ni hidoi no? Dono hen? I haven&#39;t seen roads that were "absolutely suck" bad in the Kanto area for years. (But then there are not all that many places you can go more than about 50 km/hr either. Is this a jar-the-tailbone issue because you have the Mazdaspeed seat, or is it a worry about tire/rim damage from the low profile?
[/b]
The roads are crap. It gets just cold enough in the winter here in Shiga for water to freeze and bingo!! Potholes galore, and Shiga doesn&#39;t bother repaving. They just fill and fill and fill and fill etc. I think you get the idea.... My wife sits in the passenger side and the suspension on the Atenza, although not hard, is still tight enough to make it bumpy. I&#39;d like to soften the ride a bit.

Quote:
Have you measured any mounted on a wheel, or are you going on the basis of a tire calculator? Because of the granularity of tire size designations, any given tire, when mounted, could easily be more than that 1% larger than the calculator shows (exascerbating the problem) or more than 1% smaller (giving you a baby bear "just right" for your application). Most of the 215/55-16 tires have a load rating of 93, whichh would be a nice bonus.
[/b]
I just calculated as follows: [(Tire Width x (Aspect Ration/100) x 2) / 25.4] + Rim Diameter
So tire manufacturers are like clothing makers. Size 10 shoes may not really be size 10, eh? hmm...

Quote:
Assuming that the Japanese-spec Atenza comes stock with the same 60mm offset 17x7 wheels that the US-spec Mazda6 does, you should be o.k. with a tire that is just 10mm wider in section width. The problem, if any, would be rubbing the fender in the rear, but the dimensions would be so close, it would be a problem certainly remediable by rolling the fender.
[/b]
The rim offset of the 16, 17 and 18 in. JDM wheels for the 2005 Atenza 2.3S&#39;s for are all 55mm. For the 195/65R15, offset is 50mm. For the 15 and 16 in. wheels, PCD (whatever that is) is 114.3 and hub diameter is 67in.

As for rolling the fender, that might be illegal in Japan.... I know for a fact that tires that rub or extend out from the body are illegal, but I&#39;m not sure if rolling the fender to dodge that is legal or not. At this point rolling anything is not in my options bag.

Quote:
If Mazda Japan approves 205/55-16, then it is very likely that a 215/55-16 will work just fine. I have yet to see the instance where going a mere 10mm wider from factory spec within the same aspect ratio caused a problem. (Of course, there is always a first time .)
[/b]
Well it seems the offset is different between the US and Japan. Very interesting. I&#39;d have to study up a bit more on offsets to figure this out....

Quote:
Can you get Goodyear Eagle GS-D3 tires there? In the U.S., at least, they are available in the 215/55-16 size. Nice tire.
[/b]
Yes, they are available. But I&#39;m interested in getting All Season tires which are not available here in Japan (collusion by tire companies here deceiving the populace for the need to have snow tires - new cars only come with summer tires). See, if I knew I could get all season tires here in Japan, I&#39;d go to the local shop and have them test the fitment, but I can&#39;t. Hence all this research so I can buy it from like TireRack or some other store that will ship overseas. Isn&#39;t this crazy? If I had a garage and space to swap my tire sets, I&#39;d have 2 sets but here in Japan? hahahahaha.

Well, does this help in determining whether 215/55R16&#39;s will fit on JDM Atenza Sport 23S? Again, folks, thanks for any input...

(Edit)
BTW the 2005 Atenza 23Z version came with 215/45R18&#39;s so that&#39;s a full inch bigger in diameter compared with my 23S. If that fits, I don&#39;t see why a 215/55R16 won&#39;t fit, but Mazda may have made some adjustments for that car, including gear ratios. Soooo that&#39;s why I am asking, folks....

(Edit 2)
Sorry for these edits.... the real reason I want all seasons is that winter tires in Japan, unless you live up north where the roads are snow covered 80% of the time in the winter, don&#39;t make sense. Here where I live, it snows maybe 3 times a year (like 10 in. each time) and it melts in 3 days. Winter tires just for that don&#39;t make sense - cost of the tires, wheels and cost for storage, time to swap &#39;em etc. ain&#39;t worth it.... hence I accuse the tire companies (all of &#39;em) of a closed market and collusion in Japan.
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post #57 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 08:19 AM
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I just calculated as follows: [(Tire Width x (Aspect Ration/100) x 2) / 25.4] + Rim Diameter
So tire manufacturers are like clothing makers. Size 10 shoes may not really be size 10, eh? hmm...
[/b]
It is a little different. The word I used was "granularity." Section widths must end in -5, so a tire is specified as a 195, 205, 215 ... but no value in between. Aspect ratio is specified in multiples of 5: 65-series, 60-series, 55-series, etc., but no values in between. Now, in actuality, the size designation of a tire is determined after the tire is designed, and so a tire may "really" be a 207/53-16 tire, but the official size molded onto the side would be 205/55-16. A further factor is that the actual measurement of a tire is valid only if the tire is mounted on the specified measuring rim. Mount the tire on a narrower or a wider rim than the measuring rim, and the tire&#39;s dimensions will change. For instance, if you take a 225/45-17 tire that measures a true 225mm section width when on its measuring rim (usually 7.5") and squeeze that tire onto a stock 7" Mazda6 rim, after mounting, the actual section width will measure closer to 220mm.


Quote:
As for rolling the fender, that might be illegal in Japan.... I know for a fact that tires that rub or extend out from the body are illegal, but I&#39;m not sure if rolling the fender to dodge that is legal or not. At this point rolling anything is not in my options bag.
[/b]
The fender rolling is not for sticking out but for tucking in. The front fenders come from the factory with the inside edge of the wheelwell neatly tucked in, but at the rear, on the inside of the fender, Mazda leaves the edge kind of raw. That raw edge can catch on the outside sidewall of the tire when the wheel goes over a bump. Fender rolling, invisible from the outside, just tucks in that raw edge. See the "Photographic Journey" here: http://mazda6tech.com/index.php?option=com...17&Itemid=1

Quote:
I&#39;m interested in getting All Season tires which are not available here in Japan (collusion by tire companies here deceiving the populace for the need to have snow tires - new cars only come with summer tires).
[/b]
You probably do not realize that you addressed that to the biggest anti--"all season" tire fanatic on this board. I completely agree with and applaud the Japanese regulations. (Short summary: the same technology that makes an "all season" tire stick to snow also makes water adhere to the tread instead of being repelled from it as it is on "summer" tires -- and that, in turn, makes wet traction of "all season" tires crappy.) There are others here who believe that the Tooth Fairy has exempted them from the compromise built into every "all season" tire, and who get upset when I disagree with them.
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post #58 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE(MadBiker @ Sep 9 2006, 12:34 AM) *

I&#39;m in Japan and am driving a JDM 2005 Atenza 23S (5dr. Sport) that came with Mazda-spec 215/45 R17&#39;s (total diameter 24.62in.). Intersetingly Mazda Japan says that the speedo and odo are calibrated to this tire/wheel size.[/b]
Those Dunlop SPs you currently run have an 87 load rating. If those are stock from Mazda&#39;s Hiroshima assembly line, that spec makes very interesting data point for the sporadic question here about what is the minomum load rating for the Mazda6.

[/b]

Interesting discussion. especially because I myself (bieng a one-time design engineer for automotive bearings for the worlds largest bearing company) realize that there are umpteen different things that go into the selection of a product on top of the the load rating itself. In all of the cases, the product selectors will select a product from a range of products that meets/exceeds the needed load ratings AND that meets their aesthetic design requirements and few more non-technical aspects related to vendor-customer relations.

So like I said earlier, unless a product manager from Mazda who was responsible for the tire selection on the Mazda6 speaks, we are at this time simply trying to interpret the way we see it. is 91H/v safe. Absolutel yes. Is it the bare minumum? it is safe to assume it is. But is that the reality? ? ?
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post #59 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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There are others here who believe that the Tooth Fairy has exempted them from the compromise built into every "all season" tire, and who get upset when I disagree with them.
[/b]
And there are others on this board who think they know more than they do.

You want to pick a fight, posttosh, fine. You seem obsessed with proving me wrong to the point you will make unprovoked snide comments toward me. You are pathetic.

MadBiker, you really want to take advice from this guy?

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post #60 of 304 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 10:32 AM
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It is a little different. The word I used was "granularity." Section widths must end in -5, so a tire is specified as a 195, 205, 215 ... but no value in between. Aspect ratio is specified in multiples of 5: 65-series, 60-series, 55-series, etc., but no values in between. Now, in actuality, the size designation of a tire is determined after the tire is designed, and so a tire may "really" be a 207/53-16 tire, but the official size molded onto the side would be 205/55-16. A further factor is that the actual measurement of a tire is valid only if the tire is mounted on the specified measuring rim. Mount the tire on a narrower or a wider rim than the measuring rim, and the tire&#39;s dimensions will change. For instance, if you take a 225/45-17 tire that measures a true 225mm section width when on its measuring rim (usually 7.5") and squeeze that tire onto a stock 7" Mazda6 rim, after mounting, the actual section width will measure closer to 220mm.
The fender rolling is not for sticking out but for tucking in. The front fenders come from the factory with the inside edge of the wheelwell neatly tucked in, but at the rear, on the inside of the fender, Mazda leaves the edge kind of raw. That raw edge can catch on the outside sidewall of the tire when the wheel goes over a bump. Fender rolling, invisible from the outside, just tucks in that raw edge. See the "Photographic Journey" here: http://mazda6tech.com/index.php?option=com...17&Itemid=1
[/b]
Aha! That&#39;s what you meant by granularity. It makes perfect sense! (Poof!! Light bulb goes on in head). Do tire manufacturers round down or up to the nearest "5" size? The rolling fenders tool - I&#39;ll see if body shops have that here. Thanks a ton, bud.

Quote:
You probably do not realize that you addressed that to the biggest anti--"all season" tire fanatic on this board. I completely agree with and applaud the Japanese regulations. (Short summary: the same technology that makes an "all season" tire stick to snow also makes water adhere to the tread instead of being repelled from it as it is on "summer" tires -- and that, in turn, makes wet traction of "all season" tires crappy.) There are others here who believe that the Tooth Fairy has exempted them from the compromise built into every "all season" tire, and who get upset when I disagree with them.
[/b]
Hey don&#39;t get me wrong. The JDM OEM Dunlops are awesome - I can take really tight turns at speed with them - something that all seasons might not be able to do. I would love to have separate sets for summer, winter and snow, but as I noted in my later edits, I don&#39;t have the friggin space to store winter tires nor the space to swap them here (I could pay to have a tire store do it and have them store the wheels but that to me is ridiculous). And winter tires that prove their worth maybe 2 times per winter ain&#39;t worth it - in the dry when there isn&#39;t any snow, well, it just sucks. All season tires are a compromise, out of necessity, for the winter. I&#39;ll still have my 17in rims if I want to go back to them.
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