2020 Mazda CX-30 Unveiled in Geneva - Page 2 - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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If they put a third pedal in it in the US, it'll be in my driveway. Not holding my breath, though.

Manual transmissions, wagons, and heavy metal are awesome. Zoom-Zoom \m/
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 01:24 PM
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Well that too.

The problem is that Mazda seems to be headed toward "third pedal only on severely upscale trim levels", which is BAD.

I don't want all that crap on my car. Now if you're giving it to me FREE that's a different thing, but nobody ever does of course. These days I see *negative* value in things like a sunroof -- I had them in a number of cars and never used them; well, there's $1,000 I paid and got nothing for it. Ditto for a lot of other things.

Would I like to be able to mix-n-match? Sure. I'd pay for leather seats, for example, if I could do that without taking the entire rest of the package, but nobody does that anymore. It's always with a bunch of stuff I attach no value to, and thus the leather option isn't $1,000 -- it's $10,000! For that money I'll run the cloth seats and if and when I get tired of them I'll have Katzkin put REAL (not the faux) leather in the car for me.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tickerguy View Post
The problem is that Mazda seems to be headed toward "third pedal only on severely upscale trim levels", which is BAD.
The opposite is true. Think of it this way--moving MTs upscale is wonderful and can keep them alive. Keeping the MT in the poverty spec trim only ensures that dealers aren't going to stock them because they don't make anything off them. Sure, you CAN get, say, a Nissan Frontier in a manual, but my dealership literally never orders them. You won't find one on a lot within 200 miles, maybe 1,000 miles.

If they can squeeze a few hundred, or thousand, extra out of a "premium" MT trim, that's a huge incentive for manufacturers to keep making them, and more importantly, dealers to keep stocking them. I don't like manuals because they're cheaper (although it is nice), I like them because they're 1,000x more fun. If I have to pay 5-10% "manual tax" for them to stay around, I'll gladly do so. And since I buy used, the difference between medium trim and premium trim is going to be negligible.

Sorry for the rant, haha.

Manual transmissions, wagons, and heavy metal are awesome. Zoom-Zoom \m/
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 02:22 PM
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It's not a 5% "manual tax" -- it's more like a 20-30% one.

I have no idea where people get the idea that $30k+ is "reasonable" for a vehicle; the median personal income in the US is right around that number!

That's flat-out insane and has only been enable by all the financial factoring in the F&I office -- which is disappearing rapidly (look at the average interest rate change on auto loans over the last 12 months!)
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trippp View Post
The CX30 looks great inside and out. Love how Mazda’s design language is evolving.

As for the next 6, I think Mazda is biding their time until they can introduce it on next gen architecture. The last 2 updates were pretty substantial and were significant upgrades. Had they done a FMC - most likely on a reworked version of the current platform - it would be been years behind the new 3 and now CX30. On the extreme end of the rumor scale, if the next 6 is on a shared RWD/AWD with Toyota, it could be a baby Lexus GS. One can dream... Mazda has been charging full steam ahead. It wouldn’t surprise me if they introduce a huge step into luxo territory with the next 6.
All I can say is if Mazda joint ventures with Toyota for the next 6, I hope to God that Mazda does the chassis and suspension bits. If they use the Camry chassis for the next 6... I'm out like a light.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 03:44 PM
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Mazda is just trying to differentiate themselves from the commuting appliance Toyotas and Hondas, and they're doing a good job of that IMO. The problem is that the new 3's base price is higher than my 2014 Mazda 6! So are they just doing away with the sub 20k segment altogether? That kinda sucks. It's like they're trying to move in between Honda and Acura in terms of pricing, but at least Mazda's cars look better than both of those!
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 04:31 PM
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Neo -- Yep.

This is IMHO a suicidal move into a rate environment where the ZIRP option (e.g. zero down offers, etc) in which the manufacturer and their captive finance arm are basically capitalizing the interest into the price becomes nastily unprofitable to engage in.

It's the "buy the payment" model where the manufacturer is writing the paper and leveraging their ability to borrow cheap. The risk in this is that the firm literally can go under doing this sort of thing, and the last time we had a bust that blew people up doing it in other than the housing sector it literally blew up Lucent -- a piece of the old Bell Labs and a venerable firm that had been around for a hell of a long time.

Arbitraging interest rates and thinking you can capture margin this way with ever-ratcheting prices is extraordinarily dangerous, and when (not if) it goes bad on you if you went to far with it the firm dies.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Trippp View Post
^^^^

I don’t disagree with that. The margins are what’s important. If Mazda can balance the “near luxury equation” (making vehicles that feel like they compete with Acura, Volvo, lower end German marques at “mid class prices”) ... it’s a win-win for us. Maybe throw in a limited run flagship car just to screw with the Tier 1 guys and keep them nervous.
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Mazda is just trying to differentiate themselves from the commuting appliance Toyotas and Hondas, and they're doing a good job of that IMO. The problem is that the new 3's base price is higher than my 2014 Mazda 6! So are they just doing away with the sub 20k segment altogether? That kinda sucks. It's like they're trying to move in between Honda and Acura in terms of pricing, but at least Mazda's cars look better than both of those!
I don't even have the Signature 6 and I'd have a hard time paying $20-$30,000 more for a comparably equipped luxury marque. The 6 is quiet, smooth, and has plenty of luxury and design for going around town.

Honestly, you'd be surprised about the actual take-rate of higher trims. These auto companies aren't stupid, and certainly know what sells. I remember watching a video about the CX-9 and how Mazda was surprised about how high the take rate was on the Signature trim. Kia has also been surprised about how many people are going for the $40,000+ GT trims on the new Stinger.

Who knows, perhaps most people who show up at Mazda dealers are there to spend more on a vehicle they like whereas the type of people that are looking for a cheap appliance just go to the Toyota or Honda dealer and call it a day. Mazda wouldn't eliminate a cheaper model for no reason.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 07:24 AM
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These auto companies aren't stupid.
Yep all the arm chair quarterbacks around here would have you think otherwise. Not that all companies are brilliant, but smaller companies like Mazda NEED to be smart otherwise they will not survive.

And yes, yes a thousand times YES! It's a tragedy that the manual is dying quickly. But thats a fact of business and building something no one will actually buy, would be fiscally irresponsible. Also, as has been said MANY times. It is harder to build a fuel efficient car when part of the systrm is being directed by human hands instead of a microprocessor.

Even some of the tolken manuals being offered in sedans (looking at you Genesis G70) are getting criticized for poor implementation. IMO

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 11:58 AM
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Apparently, C&D was just as flummoxed about the name as I was, so they asked Mazda about it:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...da-cx-30-name/

It's too bad their reason doesn't hold up, when they sold an entirely different 2nd-gen 6 here in NA compared to the EU/JDM 6, yet they still used the Mazda6 moniker in both markets...


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