Not really new, but haven't been here in awhile - Page 2 - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
User Tag List

 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 03:59 PM
Rally Racer
 
DrFeelGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,561
Mentioned: 171 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Thanks: 123
Thanked 171 Times in 160 Posts
Groans: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Three-way Catalytic Converter Inspection Procedure (AJ)

Quote:
Originally Posted by estel View Post
Is there a way to know when the pre-cats need to be replaced before they cause any damage to the engine? If you get the P0421/P0431 codes, is it already too late?
Well done on the O2 sensors. The only way to really monitor is using those sensors to see how the catalyst is responding. These will only work on the front cats and not anything downstream but generally those should be fine if the upstream ones are healthy. Remember you can always unbolt the downstream cats and shine a light through/behind them for a visual inspection.
The P0421/P0431 codes mean you have crossed the inversion threshold. I would say it is too late when they start to disintegrate (well after the code point) This does not always mean curtains however as my car is a testament to. (see below)

I am attaching the Three-way Catalytic Converter Inspection Procedure as listed in the Mazda Workshop Manual for the 2004 Wagon (my car). As you approach the inversion threshold your converters will be indicating decline. Until that point I wouldn't worry about it.
You replaced plugs and coils already. That, combined with the recent O2 sensors is more than most.
One thing I did was to pull out the crank position sensor (down where your oil is dripping on your exhaust...mine too) and cam position sensors and wipe them clean of metal dust. I was a bit surprised at being able to notice a difference.
Also make sure to run a fuel injector cleaner every oil change (I use Techron with excellent results) at minimum.
Lastly, be certain that none of your ignition/fuel connectors can come loose (coil plugs or fuel injector plugs. Those plastic connectors turn into baked egg white meringue after time and basically vaporize on contact)

One last thing I want to comment on is my car was starting to "ping" at 1700--2300 RPM and also right before a gear change (automatic). I believe this was a result of increased back-pressure from a failing (clogging) downstream catalyst (I replaced the bad upstream ones but was cheap and did not do them all). There was also a power loss but I did not notice this as it was gradual, over a year or more.

If it's an Automatic, change your trans fluid. I think I am settling in on 3x drain and refill every 40K mi. The Jatco 5spd is no longer made and at $2K + to rebuild can put a car in the salvage yard just as quick.

Happy Motoring
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Three-way Catalytic Converter Inspection 01.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	153.0 KB
ID:	213945   Click image for larger version

Name:	Three-way Catalytic Converter Inspection 02.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	138.2 KB
ID:	213953   Click image for larger version

Name:	Three-way Catalytic Converter Inspection 03.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	74.8 KB
ID:	213961  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mozz-D
2004 6s Wagon 3.0, 5-speed ATX
DrFeelGood is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
Learners License
 
estel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFeelGood View Post
The P0421/P0431 codes mean you have crossed the inversion threshold. I would say it is too late when they start to disintegrate (well after the code point)... As you approach the inversion threshold your converters will be indicating decline. Until that point I wouldn't worry about it...
One thing I did was to pull out the crank position sensor (down where your oil is dripping on your exhaust...mine too) and cam position sensors and wipe them clean of metal dust. I was a bit surprised at being able to notice a difference.
Also make sure to run a fuel injector cleaner every oil change (I use Techron with excellent results) at minimum.
Lastly, be certain that none of your ignition/fuel connectors can come loose (coil plugs or fuel injector plugs. Those plastic connectors turn into baked egg white meringue after time and basically vaporize on contact)
Thanks for the responses. I will continue to monitor the inversions of the O2 sensors to gauge the health of the upstream cats. They are good now. When the inversion ratio declines substantially then I'll replace all four cats. If I have time and ambition, I may replace the timing cover gasket too and get rid of that oil leak.

I will plan to clean the crank sensor and cam sensors too. I have been using Techron fuel system cleaner occasionally, about once every two years. Maybe I'll step up the frequency.

My 6 has a manual gearbox. I have replaced the gearbox lube about three times, usually when it starts having trouble getting into first gear. I usually run Redline MT-90.

Regarding the injector connectors, I may look for a new harness to install the next time that I have to unplug them. I did that on another car in the past.

Thanks again.

2003 Mazda 6S
estel is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 02:33 AM
Rally Racer
 
DrFeelGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,561
Mentioned: 171 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Thanks: 123
Thanked 171 Times in 160 Posts
Groans: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by estel View Post
Thanks for the responses. I will continue to monitor the inversions of the O2 sensors to gauge the health of the upstream cats. They are good now. When the inversion ratio declines substantially then I'll replace all four cats. If I have time and ambition, I may replace the timing cover gasket too and get rid of that oil leak.

I will plan to clean the crank sensor and cam sensors too. I have been using Techron fuel system cleaner occasionally, about once every two years. Maybe I'll step up the frequency.

My 6 has a manual gearbox. I have replaced the gearbox lube about three times, usually when it starts having trouble getting into first gear. I usually run Redline MT-90.

Regarding the injector connectors, I may look for a new harness to install the next time that I have to unplug them. I did that on another car in the past.

Thanks again.
Well done. That is what I call the A game of maintenance.
Please post how a timing cover gasket goes. I hear it is a challenge but I have been thinking about doing it... we'll see.
Happy New Year.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mozz-D
2004 6s Wagon 3.0, 5-speed ATX
DrFeelGood is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 01:29 PM
Registered User
 
waughoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 1,803
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 116 Times in 111 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Good on ya man!

Alex
2004 6s Wagon MTX - grocery hauler
---}
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
{---

MODS: Tinted windows, RX8s with 225/45 R18s,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
waughoo is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 11:04 AM
Registered User
 
98se5speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 62 Times in 55 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFeelGood
Well done. That is what I call the A game of maintenance.
Please post how a timing cover gasket goes. I hear it is a challenge but I have been thinking about doing it... we'll see.
Happy New Year.
I have nightmares just thinking about removing the timing cover while the engine is in the car. So miserable. Obviously do-able, but damn is it a pain. Hell, just getting the rear valve cover off is pain enough.

Here's when I replaced the timing chains, guides, oil pump and cams in my terribly sludged-up grey 04 wagon. Essentially did nothing to make that ticky beast quiet down.


As of late I'm starting to occasionally get a hint of burned oil smell from both my 6 and the wife's MPV. I fear that almost 3 years later, both timing covers are starting to baaarely leak. So annoying that the exhaust is immediately under the timing cover on the older 3.0 engines. Hopefully a little bolt tightening and maybe some external RTV can stop the tiny leaks. Feels like just yesterday I had those engines clean as new on the covers...



Otherwise it's back to my old ghetto "oil deflector" setup, at least on the MPV...

DrFeelGood and babyluv2 like this.

James - Ann Arbor, MI
2004 6 wagon (3 pedals ftw)
2004 MPV ES (family transport perfection)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
98se5speed is offline  
post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 12:27 PM
Rally Racer
 
DrFeelGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,561
Mentioned: 171 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Thanks: 123
Thanked 171 Times in 160 Posts
Groans: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98se5speed View Post
I have nightmares just thinking about removing the timing cover while the engine is in the car.
Yah...I believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98se5speed View Post
Otherwise it's back to my old ghetto "oil deflector" setup, at least on the MPV...

This is awesome. I am preparing to do the same. In a strange bit of irony, I collect license plates and happen to have a surplus of Illinois plates that appear to be perfect. Now they have a "special purpose"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mozz-D
2004 6s Wagon 3.0, 5-speed ATX
DrFeelGood is offline  
post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 11:45 PM
Registered User
 
waughoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 1,803
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 116 Times in 111 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFeelGood View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98se5speed View Post
I have nightmares just thinking about removing the timing cover while the engine is in the car.
Yah...I believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98se5speed View Post
Otherwise it's back to my old ghetto "oil deflector" setup, at least on the MPV...

This is awesome. I am preparing to do the same. In a strange bit of irony, I collect license plates and happen to have a surplus of Illinois plates that appear to be perfect. Now they have a "special purpose"
This is an awesome idea! I always hate smelling the burned oil smell in my 6. It really bumbs me out. Despite the rest of the car looking like new, this smell really makes it feel like a jalopy.
babyluv2 likes this.

Alex
2004 6s Wagon MTX - grocery hauler
---}
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
{---

MODS: Tinted windows, RX8s with 225/45 R18s,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
waughoo is offline  
post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-11-2018, 12:38 PM
Registered User
 
98se5speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 62 Times in 55 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Yeah it definitely beats smelling the burned oil. You run the risk of it leaving drips on your driveway, but it seems worth it.

With our van, it would make a greasy mess all over the plate (actually, there were 2 of them, see the curved one in the background) but they never really collected enough to actually make a drip. Probably got splattered behind as we drove.
babyluv2 likes this.

James - Ann Arbor, MI
2004 6 wagon (3 pedals ftw)
2004 MPV ES (family transport perfection)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
98se5speed is offline  
post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-11-2018, 07:54 PM
Registered User
 
b1lk1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Lindsay, Ontario
Posts: 941
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Thanks: 37
Thanked 82 Times in 77 Posts
Groans: 20
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
I'm lucky for not having the oil dripping anywhere on the exhaust, but I need to rework my midpipe and get some converters on in the hopes of turning my CEL off. I think I need to move the front O2's closer to the engine as well or wrap the headers, but I'm not too crazy about that.

2004 Mazda 6s 3.0 5dr. 5spd never ending money vacuum project:
CP-E headers w/catted mid + Magnaflow carback/AEM CAI/3.7L TB/Speed6 springs/RX-8 wheels
AWR 70D Enginemount/CP-E Dogbone/Custom urethane stock trans mount
Ralco shortshifter/Bose w/Auxmod/sharkfin antenna/lots of little things...
b1lk1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome