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post #11 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 06:53 AM
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I wouldn't doubt Mazda's ability or ambition to release new tech. They've done it before. Although people keep pointing back to the rotary as a failure, I see it as nothing but an engineering success. Just because it didn't succeed from a sales point of view doesn't mean that Mazda didn't learn from the experience. The same risk could be said for Skyactiv.


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post #12 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:14 PM
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Toyota hasn't updated the 3.5L engine for 10 years in the Camry and Corolla 1.8L for close to 20 years. The Camry platform hasn't changed much either, I still see the same 109 inch wheelbase from 2007.
That is how Toyota makes billions just like how the old GM made 3 minor changes to the 3800 in what 30 years?

Mazda is making engine changes after introducing the 2.5L within 6 years, expensive for a small car company.
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post #13 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:36 PM
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True, but if they actually make HCCI work then they will have something literally nobody else does -- and it will come with VERY sizable efficiency improvements PLUS be easily modified (which means additional "versions" with a LOT higher output will show up, whether through Mazda or third-party bolt-ons.)

Don't underestimate the technology advancement here, assuming they actually make it work. This is not an incremental change by any means -- it's effectively bringing diesel efficiency and power capacity to gasoline engines, which no other manufacturer has (thus far) pulled off.
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post #14 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 01:13 PM
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But Mazda doesn't want to be Toyota. Tried that in the 90's and it didn't work out.

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post #15 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickerguy View Post
True, but if they actually make HCCI work then they will have something literally nobody else does -- and it will come with VERY sizable efficiency improvements PLUS be easily modified (which means additional "versions" with a LOT higher output will show up, whether through Mazda or third-party bolt-ons.)

Don't underestimate the technology advancement here, assuming they actually make it work. This is not an incremental change by any means -- it's effectively bringing diesel efficiency and power capacity to gasoline engines, which no other manufacturer has (thus far) pulled off.
Yes!

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post #16 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 03:34 PM
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I'm down with them trying stuff......as long as they don't stick their necks out so far as to get them chopped off, ie.... go out of business.
JMHO....let the Wankel and diesel die and concentrate on high output/high MPG engines. They should also get cracking on combining Skyactive with Electric motors for a hybrid and use that as a steeping stone to a fully electric car too.
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post #17 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 04:01 PM
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But Mazda doesn't want to be Toyota. Tried that in the 90's and it didn't work out.

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Actually it's the opposite today.

Toyota wants to be Mazda ... -> Scion iA :-D (mazda 2)
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post #18 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 05:24 PM
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JMHO....let the Wankel and diesel die and concentrate on high output/high MPG engines. They should also get cracking on combining Skyactive with Electric motors for a hybrid and use that as a steeping stone to a fully electric car too.
Disagree on the HCCI.

HCCI, if they can make it work, beats hybrid in a big way -- there's a $3,000 battery (that's heavier than a dead priest as well, and accelerating mass does bad things to your fuel economy) you don't need, nor do you need the electric motors and switchgear. Yet both are going to get into the same efficiency area quite easily. Consider a "6" with an HCCI engine that can get within spitting distance of 50mpg @ 65mph. Impossible you say? Nope -- very possible without any further aero improvements. Hybrid will win in stop-n-go city driving due to regenerative braking, but that's it. That puts the current "6" in Prius territory in terms of fuel economy and yet it's a hell of a lot larger vehicle for materially less money.

Hybrid ultimately loses due to the extra energy conversions. No way around that one, it's physics. On top of that it loses (big) on money simply due to the additional components required. If you amortize acquisition cost + per-mile fuel and maintenance the HCCI engine vehicle wins BIG.

If Mazda has managed to actually make HCCI work they will slaughter anyone making hybrids -- they'll have a vehicle that costs $5,000 less (to make!) at an equivalent trim and quality level, that sells for ~$6-7,000 less, and yet returns equal or better fuel efficiency and performance.

That's fairly simple math, and it explains why they're after it. The other guys all know the math as well which is why they've all been after it to one degree or another.

Mazda can quite-easily go from a "small" car company to a monster with this engine tech if they have actually figured out how to make it work. That's the key "if"..... and it sounds like those crazy Japanese may indeed have figured it out.
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post #19 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 05:45 PM
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It sounds like something that if it did exist it would already be available for more cars.
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post #20 of 77 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 06:07 PM
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Not necessarily. As was mentioned above the majority of car manufacturers are risk averse. Many engines borrowing off 30 year old tech, while those companies who may be more willing to take risks may not have the talent or vision. Also realize that there are stockholders who often cripple a company' ability to invest over years of development. Mazda for better or worse has always been willing to take chances. And that's what makes them an exciting company IMO.

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