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post #61 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-12-2005, 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by MowerMan@May 11 2005, 11:43 PM
Opinions and anecdotes have nothing to do with science.
[snapback]409638[/snapback]
Used Oil Analysis is not an opinion. It's a scientific analysis.

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Changing your oil at 1000mi or 100mi or every 50 miles certainly doesn't hurt (well maybe your pocketbook), but it also buys you nothing (well maybe some personal satisfaction).
Hey, if that's what you feel, leave it like that. No need for me or other people to waste time and tell you otherwise.

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post #62 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-12-2005, 10:20 AM
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Just to add another note. Full flow filters (general spin-ons) are considered "emergency debris catchers" and generally only capture particles larger then 100 microns.

Recent post on the usefulness of standard oil filters
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultima...ic;f=6;t=002461

Some can catch particles as small as 20 microns, but the % caught is very small in comparison to the larger particles.

Its been shown that particles as small as 5 micron can cause bearing wear, and filters miss alot of these. Thus why "bypass" filters came into use. A filtration system which can filter down to 2 microns, but can only do so when the oil is in a bypass state.

Since you disregard the manufacturer recommendations in terms of oil selection...I wonder what type of filter your using. I hope its not a fram.
http://rsx.freewebpage.org/index.htm

Thus the particles contained within a UOA ARE very important, and do indicate the overall wear of the engine, its breakin, possible leaks, possible fuel problems, and possible issues with the filtration system and/or engine.

Disregarding a UOA because the particles are too small to do harm is like disregarding your blood work because if the liver didn't filter it out, it can't be bad for you.

Information on UOA importantance and validity (both sides)
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...ic;f=1;t=004347
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...ic;f=1;t=009207
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...0996;p=1#000000
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...ic;f=1;t=008997

UOA's show that an early oil change can flush alot of the remants of breakin and factory castings out of the engine oil. Do you have to do it?No, of course not. Is it recommended? Yup. Considering motorcraft 5w-20 semi-synthetic (the stock oil) costs 1.40/qt, its not really a big expense to change it out early.

I'd imagine your primary counterpoint to UOA's not providing factual information is based on the recent evidence showing that overly thick oils (such as your 20w-60) can cause unnecessary wear to an engine designed to run on 20/30 wts. This is primarily due to startup viscosity's, and oil temps. The fact that the VVT system relys on oil flow to function properly doesn't help much either. Additionally should your engine ever enounter an issue and have a mazda teardown, it is part of the teardown that a UOA is done on the oil in the engine. If the viscosity of that oil is out of manfuacturer specifics, the engine warranty is null and void. This has happened on the bob's forum. The same thing can happen if you extend an OCI (oil change interval) past the manufacturer required limits. There is usually some leeway room (some 20 wt's thicker to 30 wts, and most 30 wts are 20 wt's) but a drastic difference will be extremely easy to spot. Don't count on the oil companies to help you either. Thats all a giant load of bs as one amsoil owner recently found out.

As always with any application, its important to look at the manufacturers recommendations and past history of the engine before making a selection on oil grades.

http://www.contour.org
http://www.fastcougar.com

Are good sources for past history of the duratec platform, both in 2.5 and 3.0 variants. Considering some of their engines make peak power at 7600 rpm (with an 8k redline) and they're running 5w-30 mobil1 in 100F summer heat (racing), and have hundreds of thousands of miles on their engines without issues (as long as you don't let the oil level drop), that speaks more volumes then anything I can ever post here.

I suggest doing a Dyson analysis through blackstone-labs, and having terry dyson (a tribologist) look over your readings on the 20w-60. Terry used to do the UOA's for the tripoint racing teams in the SCCA World Challenge Series, and is more then competent at doing so for a commuter car.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/dyson_analysis.html

He can also recommend an oil application based on your application, for maximum protection, maximum power, and maximum longevity.

Tripoint btw, was running a 40 wt oil in their car, and has dropped the weight down to an oil which would probably result in the engines instant destruction in your eyes. (5w-20 and 10w-30 redline) [280 bhp, 8500 redline mazda 6, no engine rebuilds allowed during the season]





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post #63 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-02-2005, 10:34 AM
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Resticky Please





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post #64 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:35 AM
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Bumping cause I'm tired of searching for this thread.





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post #65 of 73 (permalink) Old 07-11-2006, 08:52 AM
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Because this is available for questions I do have one.

I am getting a new engine put in my car. I however have to drive to New Jersey on Thursday night. I will be planning on getting an oil change done at Wayne Mazda on Friday morning. I will have put 400 miles on the new engine.

If I then do another oil change when I return on Saturday at 800 miles, would this also be of a benfit to me as the microscopic particles may still be forming after my first oil change in NJ? Or will it be a waste of time?

I will send in both oil changes in for UOA and post up if possible.
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post #66 of 73 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 09:03 AM
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Yea, I'll feel much better after giving my car a fresh batch of oil, Just hit the 1000 mile mark a few days ago, going to get it in the shop pretty soon to have the oil changed and my new wheels added!!!!

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post #67 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 11:18 PM
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Man...If I changed my oil EVERY 1,000 miles....I would have to change it every 3 weeks!

COUNT!</span> So <span style="color:#ff0000">Save the DRAMA FOR YOUR MAMA!
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post #68 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 07:40 AM
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This thread is only for the "first" oil change. After this change, one should run a standard interval (4-5k), then if you do a lot of hwy, 7500 with a UOA to make sure the TBN is ok. If its a turbo car, I&#39;d still stick to 5k changes, just because of the turbo baking the oil that runs through it.





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post #69 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-15-2007, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
This thread is only for the "first" oil change.[/b]
This is posted in the UOA thread. But I&#39;ll go ahead and post it again here. It&#39;s the first oil change on my MS6 at 1100 miles.

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post #70 of 73 (permalink) Old 06-15-2007, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
I will also add the reason you want to vary your RPM&#39;s during break in, is to prevent the pistons "reaching" to the same spot in the cylinders, as this can create a small ridge in the cylinder that when the piston reaches past that point, the rings can chip.[/b]
Well in many years of building cars and engines I have to admit that&#39;s one I&#39;ve never heard before.

If your pistons are reaching different points at TDC dependent on RPM you better find some connecting rods that aren&#39;t made out of rubber.
Sorry, but that&#39;s an absolute falsehood.

And eventually a ridge will form at the top of any cylinder bore, the top ring land on the piston isn&#39;t exactly at the top and in most engines the piston&#39;s TDC is slightly below the deck anyway. Add those tolerances together and you&#39;ll have a certain area at the top of the bore that the top compression ring will never reach to, thus forming a ridge as the rest of the bore below it wears from ring contact.

But trust me, they always travel the same distance in the bores.

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