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Gee, what changed in the 2015 models (ROFL!)

64K views 95 replies 25 participants last post by  Lanson 
#1 · (Edited)
Addressing Sound Quality Issues (or "Gee, what's in those doors?")

I wonder.... that door card's back side looks rather impressive.

Note: The rear door cards are NOT soundproofed; the back side of those are bare.

Nor is there ANY dampening on the inside of the door skins. I am adding it to the skins on all four doors, plus the quarter panels, which is how I found this. The quarter panels have the typical 1x4" dampener from the factory which is grossly inadequate.

Yeah, I'd say that's the reason I think the car is pretty darn quiet "as delivered" but I don't know when in the production cycle it changed. Nonetheless this is quite "stuffed" and I intend to finish the job and do the same with the rear doors. I was intending to put MLV in there but may not given this; the dampening is going in right now. I am also contemplating changing the factory speakers.

I noted that I hadn't found anything objectionable in sound levels in my car. This is probably why..... :D

The secret to getting the door cards off without the bitch clips playing with you is that after you remove the door card (use nylon tools and pry AT the clip location) use a NYLON (NOT metal!) tool that has a notch in it of the right size to remove the clips from the door. With a bit of care you can get them all out without breaking ANY of them. DO NOT CUT THEM OFF OR YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE INSIDE PANEL TO GET THE PIECES OUT!

Note that removing the rear door glass to get the inside panel off so as to be able to clearly access the outside skin looks to be a REAL pain, requiring removal of the quarter window first. I DID NOT DO THIS and instead went through the access point for the cables (removable and secured with butyrene rope which if removed from the door with care is reusable as it remains sticky) and the speaker opening.

You only need to cover about 20-25% of the panel on the inside to materially dampen the resonances. ~25sqft of deadening material (Dynamat or similar) should do all four doors, the two quarter panels (in front of the fuel fill I couldn't find reasonable access to) and the lid of the trunk. The difference should be VERY material when done. I'm in the middle of the job now and will report on the results below.

It also looks very easy to put a material amount of sound insulation in the rear wheel wells between the well and the interior; there's a lot of room there. In addition the Sport's are pre-wired for damn near everything -- now I suddenly want a factory chassis and body manual REAL BAD so I know where all those go and what's in the car because there are a hell of a lot of capped connectors in the trunk space in particular.

This looks to be one of those "take an afternoon and $100 worth of materials and it will make a HUGE difference" things. If your front door cards are not stuffed then you know exactly what it looks like on the 2015s -- and why they're quite a bit quieter.

Note the difference between the front and rear door back sides :D
 

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#2 · (Edited)
OK, so here we are with the four doors, the quarter panels and the trunk lid dampened.

As expected with the front doors insulated there's not a huge difference in outside noise coming in the car. I can't give you an honest subjective impression but I do have OBJECTIVE SPL levels from right after I bought the car and will drive that road again with the SPL meter in the next couple of days and see -- if I had to guess offhand I'd say it might be good for a db or maybe 2 of reduction but I'm stretching here -- 3db is usually the threshold of naked ear capability to objective determine, so it could easily be zero difference. There is, however, a material reduction in the amount of noise you hear coming from cars NEXT TO YOU on the road. That's not unexpected given the dampening of the ability of the door to transmit sound by excitation.

HOWEVER, what really changed is the character of the factory speakers; the somewhat muddy quality in the bass is MUCH, MUCH improved. That difference is NOT subtle at all; it was noticeable instantly when I turned the car on with Pink Floyd, which happened to be what was playing when I shut down last night.

So round #1 of sound improvement is a smashing success for roughly $100 and a couple of hours of work, with the only casualty being one door card clip. I'll buy a handful of those clips next time I'm near a dealer just to have them, because I suspect I'll be back in those doors, probably for speaker upgrades at some point.

The driver front door has two unused connectors inside it and the passenger has one. One of the unused connectors in each of the front doors is right at the door lock. That may be for the ""request" button for those cars with "no touch" unlocking EXCEPT that I didn't think there was a button on the passenger side -- so why it's present on both sides I don't know. The other one is a connector of about the same size as the windows and power locks + mirrors; I have no idea what it's supposed to run in the higher-trim cars.

The mirror connectors appears to have three unused pins (no wire in them) coming from the car, and five wires. I'm quite curious as to whether there's 12V on one of those for mirror heat and/or a signal for auto-dim as if there is that makes adding those to the trims that don't have it a $100 option (replace the sideview mirror glass and plug it in.) It certainly appears that effectively all of the "package options" could be individually added if you don't have them (other than the obvious physical ones like the sunroof) and if you can get the bits at a decent price you could pick and choose.

Incidentally the rear door cards go back on a LOT easier than the fronts. The fronts are quite difficult to maneuver the seal component at the top over the flange and then get the locating pins into their holes. The rears are a piece of cake. The fronts are very easy to get the inner door panel off, which is good news on a couple of fronts, including if you ever have a window regulator fail -- don't pay the stealer to change it as you can easily do it in a half-hour yourself. The rears.... well, getting the glass out looks like a lot of fun and that's the predicate to removing the inner panel, so yeah, if someone smashes your window to get in your car and try to steal something HOPE IT IS ONE OF THE FRONTS AND NOT THE REARS!
 
#3 · (Edited)
Here's the procedure on getting the inside door panels off for the fronts -- note that you pretty much need a nylon trim prybar set or you're going to have problems with the door clip pins. I strongly recommend buying a set if you don't have them -- they're about $10 at most auto stores and not only avoid scratching things up they're essential for this sort of work.

1. Open the door fully; pull off the top trim cover at the front upper corner of the door; it comes off with modest hand pressure. Remove the trim under the door pull handle (there is room to grab it with your finger to pull it loose) and you will find a screw under there. Remove it. Remove the rubber insert at the bottom of the door's armrest hole and there is a second screw. Remove that one. Remove the cover plate on the courtesy light AND REMOVE THE BULB (you WILL break it if you don't; I destroyed the LED I had in one of my doors by not removing it first. Learn from me and save a couple bucks.) Roll the window all the way down.

2. Using a nylon tool and a flashlight feel around until you find the white plastic clip on the bottom of the door (there are two.) Lever it out and it will come off. You can then pull the card away from the door or lever the others away. You may break one or two of them but as long as you only break half of the mushroom at the top they're reusable; if you break the entire head off you need a new one. If you're careful you might be able to avoid breaking any of them.

3. CAREFULLY lift the door card up away from the door by the middle (the top will still be attached); make sure the last two clips at the top of the card detach. There are also two plastic pins that have no latch on them that are in the door sheet metal. As you lift upward those will clear the door; as they do lift upward toward the top of the door frame and the panel will come off. DO NOT YANK TOO HARD; there are wires attached to the card!

4. Maneuver the latch/lock mechanism out; there is a tab that pops free and it will come out of the door card and hang by the two cables that operate the lock. Detach the wire harnesses for the locks and windows. There is a center nub you press on the connector; on the window one it is on the bottom and you can't see it, but it's there. Press it in and pull the connector (NOT BY THE WIRE!) out. The door card is now free.

5. Use your nylon tool to extract the pins that remained in the door. You want the one that has a prybar-like fork in it; that will go under the bottom part of the plastic pin that is against the door skin and allow you to work the clip out. They will come out without damage. Reattach them to the door card; they are all the same.

6. Remove the two black plastic plugs that are in the place shown by the arrow in the illustration below. Temporarily plug the door card's power window connector back in, turn the car on (do not start it!) and raise the window until the white window regulator is visible in the holes. There will be two black bolts in the regulator (you can see the holes where they were.) Turn off the car, disconnect the door card plug and remove both bolts.

7. Grasp the glass from the top where it is protruding from the window frame and CAREFULLY pull it upward out from the outside door skin and track (that is, toward the OUTSIDE of the door); the glass will have to be tilted to clear the regulator mechanism. There is a silver bolt above the plastic door card (one, and one only!) that is the other end of that mechanism. Look down the slot and you will see it; the clips on the bottom of the window have to be maneuvered so they do not foul on that mechanism or the cables that run the window. Note that once it is free of the clips if you drop it the glass may shatter so be careful. Place the glass somewhere safe.

8. Disconnect the white connector going to the door lock module. It has a press-to-release lock like the others. The others do not have to be unplugged provided you're careful.

9. Remove the bolts you see circled; there are also more of them around the perimeter. All the ones inside the perimeter MUST NOT BE UNSCREWED; they connect things like the window motor to the card and not the card itself. There is also a silver bolt at the top of the door referenced in #7 ; remove that. Below it there is a black plastic "push-pin" style fastener like the ones you see in the wheel wells and trunk, but bigger. Pull the CENTER piece (not the outside!) to disengage it and it will come out.

9. The inner door skin is now free. It has a mastic sort of sealant around it that will have to be pulled loose, but it should come free with light hand pressure. If it's sticking check CAREFULLY to make sure you didn't miss a bolt! All the ones you have to remove have a star pattern on the plastic that you can see in the picture and the silver bolt at the top of the door must be out. When the inner card comes free the upper part of the window regulator has to come out of the door so it must drop downward somewhat to clear the door. There are a bunch of cables going to the door pass through but you can maneuver the inner card and set it down in the wheel well without stressing them if you're careful. You now have full access to the inside of the door.

Note that this is the same procedure you will need to replace the window regulator if it ever fails out of warranty -- now you know how to get to it. It's not hard; 10-15 minutes working carefully. Dealers love to charge $500+ to fix a window regulator; the regulator itself is about $100. You choose....

Installation is the reverse. When installing the inside panel the top window regulator (silver) bolt should be tightened in the EXACT same place where it was so the window runs true in the track; it conveniently leaves a mark on the door metal for you when you remove it. Once the regulator top bolt is in place and the inside skin secured (note that you're screwing into plastic anchors; don't go reefing on those bolts or you'll strip 'em!) angle the window glass back in and slowly lower it until the bracket aligns and reinstall the bolts. There is probably a torque spec for that but they are not particularly tight -- just snug. Replace the two black plastic covers you removed for access to the bolts.

The lock lever/flip goes back in the hole and when properly positioned the tab will be visible in the slot and the lever will line up. Plug the connectors back in; they will click into place and they only connect one way. Plug in the door, turn on the ignition and lower the window all the way; then shut the car back off.

When reinstalling the door card you have to slip the seal over the top lip with the card at an angle, press down so it seats and make sure two non-locking pins go in the holes. A significant amount of maneuvering is required but force INWARD on the door card is not. When it lines up it will slip right into place; check that the pins are in and light hand pressure will snap the clips back in.

Replace the two screws and three trim pieces and you're done.

The rears are the same except that it does not appear there is an angle that will allow removal of the window glass without removing the rear quarter window first. That does not look like fun and I didn't pull the inside door panel for that reason, I worked through an access cover and the speaker hole. If I ever have to replace a window glass in the back doors I'll figure it out at that time.

Hope this helps someone; note that the bolts are METRIC (as is pretty much everything on this car.)
 

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#4 · (Edited)
Objective SPL results are in: 1-2db reduction at the driver's position. My meter can't read tenths so whether it's "1" or "2" is indeterminate.

In addition to the previously-noted improvement in definition of the audio (particularly tightening up the "boominess" of mid-bass) I can now identify quite-clearly that the largest contribution to the sound profile in the cabin is now coming from the rear doors. There is also a decent improvement in presence (mid-tonal range sound) which is likely due to not having to turn the volume up quite as much to get the same perceived sound level (over road noise) in the cabin.

While 1-2db doesn't sound like much it's actually quite important; reducing background noise by 3db results in the wattage necessary for a given level of sound in the cabin over background dropping by half. Thus the reduction in terms of how much power the system must push for a given level of perceived "immersion" in the music is down by about 25% from stock. Not bad.

Next step is to MLV and decouple the rear door cards, adding batting (probably thinsulate-based) as well, which I'll save for when I decide to replace the speakers -- that will almost-certainly will happen within the next month or two. I think I can get to the 3db level which is a very material improvement.

That may well be where I stop; the chase for the next decibel is easy to get going on but the law of diminishing returns comes into play quite quickly. The initial $100 material investment was very much worth the cost and effort; how much further you can take this approach and still have it be worth it is an open question.
 
#5 ·
That seems to be a lot of work to do if the amount of noise you hear inside the cabin doesn't reduce drastically. IMO, just because you need half the power to "hear" the same amount of sound, I think there is plenty of power available to overcome that 3dB (which in your case you aren't at 3dB yet anyway).

I am not sure what the sensitivity of the stock speakers is, but lets say it is 85dB which is a reasonable number. So that means with 1W of power you are already at 85dB at 1meter away from the speakers. So at 32W you are already at 100dB which is pretty darn loud and people don't listen to their music in their car at those levels.

So I guess my point is that either way, you are pushing the amp to its limits by having to "overcome" 3dB of additional noise.
 
#6 · (Edited)
As I pointed out originally the expected benefit was more in the quality of the sound from the stock speakers by dramatically reducing panel resonance. Exciting the panels (since the speakers are open in the back this inherently happens) results in the panels being additional "speakers" in that the sound energy they then radiate comes back into the cabin. In the fronts there is some sound insulation but in the rear doors there is not. This is most-noticeable as "muddiness" in the sound, particularly in the mid-bass.

Reducing panel resonances cuts those emissions dramatically and with them the peaks and valleys they create in the sound are greatly attenuated. The result is a much cleaner soundstage which is why I undertook the exercise in the first place. For those who have the Bose system I suspect you might get even more benefit in sound quality than with the stock sound system since the excitation energy available to bear against those panels is larger with the Bose system.

I did not expect to achieve material amounts of actual sound isolation by doing this but the isolation I did get is clearly from the reduction of transmission of outside-the-car noise impinging on the panels and the subsequent resonance into the cabin -- an effective speaker for noise pointed toward the passenger compartment. In other words the exact sort of noise that is much more bothersome than its SPL alone would imply.

The most-interesting aspect of this exercise so far is that before adding the dampening I couldn't identify where outside sounds were coming into the car to any material degree. Now I can in that an outsized contribution to in-cabin noise is being made by the rear doors. This also suggests that I can get another db or 2 out of insulating them against that transmission, at which point they would disappear as a "point source", but now we're at a 3db reduction from "as delivered".

That is very material.

As an aside the generally-recognized threshold for "easily determinable by ear" is a 3db level change. That level change, by the way, requires a doubling (or halving) of the power in watts to generate. A 10db level change requires ten times the amplifier power; decibel levels are an exponential, not linear, scale.

If you look at the best cars in objective SPL noise testing -- the ones that cost 50, 60 or $70,000 -- you find that the difference between them and cars like the lower-cost Lexus lines, BMWs and the "6" is roughly 4db with a few getting close to 5db at highway speeds. Being able to achieve a solid 3db reduction puts you within spitting distance of those $70,000 cars in terms of sound isolation.

IMHO getting to the 3db level is worth it given the relatively small-ball amount of money involved. Going beyond that is probably not as the investment will start to exponentially increase in both time and money (I'm certainly not going to rip the entire interior of the car out, for example) while the remaining returns available become smaller with each additional increment in investment.
 
#7 ·
As an aside the generally-recognized threshold for "easily determinable by ear" is a 3db level change. That level change, by the way, requires a doubling (or halving) of the power in watts to generate. A 10db level change requires ten times the amplifier power; decibel levels are an exponential, not linear, scale.
Yup, I understand this already. Which if you look at my example and do the quick math indicates. In order to go from 85dB to 100dB, it goes from 1W to 32W, so obviously that is not linear.

I pick up my 2015 GT on Saturday so I haven't actually really tested out the sound system yet or really got a feel for the sound isolation yet so maybe I will wish it was better. Either way, I am glad that you like the results and I certainly appreciate all of the info that you posted here for us all to look at and make a decision on if we think we want to go this route as well.
 
#8 ·
One of the amusing parts of this "debate" if you will is that if you want the absolute maximum SPL available in the car you actually want MORE resonances because they are additive to the SPL in the cabin! Of course that says nothing about the quality of that SPL :D

I'm much-more concerned about the quality than quantity; I'm one of the folks that gets frisson from certain music and while I can easily provoke it in my home listening environment being able to duplicate that in a car has historically proved difficult as the complexity of the signal available over the noise floor in a moving car presents quite a challenge. That's where my quest derives from and the improvement in this regard has thus far been well worth the chase.
 
#9 · (Edited)
This looks to be one of those "take an afternoon and $100 worth of materials and it will make a HUGE difference" things.
Nice job, and well worth the investment to Dynamat the door skins, imo. Not only will it reduce noise somewhat, but it should give a more satisfying, vault-like "thunk" when closing the doors, and improve the sound quality emanating from the speakers.

I had a hard time following your references to the 2015 models. Are you saying the 2014 doors aren't sound insulated, but that the 2015 doors are?
 
#10 ·
I don't know if the 2014s are -- I own a 2015 -- and they clearly are in the front but not the rear.

If the 2014s aren't (or it was a mid-year change and later builds are but earlier not) that would account for the difference in noise levels that people have reported.
 
#16 ·
Yes, thank you. I never stopped to think that the sound insulation (or lack or) in the doors could severely affect sound quality (beyond allowing more outside noise in that is) but it makes sense. If I find the sound in my new GT is not quite what I'd hoped for I'll know there are other things to consider than just the sound system itself.
 
#17 ·
Sound *insulation* will not have a gross impact on sound quality (other than lowering the noise floor, which makes more difference than you think it does.)

However, dampening (or the lack thereof, more precisely) makes a huge difference in sound quality. Even if you can't identify the resonance as a separate sound source (in extreme cases you can though) it has a quite-dramatic impact both on an instrumented test and in terms of perceived clarity.

The nice thing about resonance dampening is that it's both easy and cheap to fix if a manufacturer did a less-than-adequate job of it, provided you can get to the panels in question. And in this case you can, so it's all to the good.

Actually insulating against sound infiltration is usually quite a bit more-difficult in terms of benefit received for effort (and cost) expended.
 
#18 ·
I've put sound vibration mat in 3 of the four doors. The one door I haven't, has significantly more wind and road noise. Once I finish it up the cabin will be much quieter. Bass in the front doors sounds much better too because I also added in some of Second Skin's Speaker Tweaker pads that go behind the speakers to clean up response.

I also am putting some sound barrier materials in the wheel wells.

I have a spray, some Thermozite, and closed cell foam from RAAMAT, dampening sheets from RAAMAT & Second Skin Audio.
 
#19 ·
My intentions moving forward looks like this (components on the way now...)

1. MLV decoupling in all four doors installed in a fashion that it is NOT permanently attached and non-removable (I absolutely insist on being able to get back inside the door to do things like replace a window regulator if it becomes necessary without destroying my augmentation work.)

2. Adding sound insulation in the rear door cards, and possibly augmenting the fronts (which already have a fair bit of it.) I MAY (if I have extra material handy) add to the rear wheel wells which are (1) inside the trunk space and thus in the easily-audible space as only the package shelf is between them and you) and (2) are trivially accessible. Note that a bit of investigation shows a fair bit of sound insulation ALREADY PRESENT inside the firewall in the pax compartment (far more than my Jetta, for example, which has ZERO.) That is, the "6" already has a DECENT amount of sound insulation present up forward, which implies that going after the front is likely to produce materially less or even no benefit.

3. STOP AND ASSESS (measured, not guessed.) Will report results here. My EXPECTATIONS are to obtain 2-3db reduction over stock. I already got 1-2db and this looks VERY achievable. I will almost-certainly stop there rather than rip out the entire interior chasing rainbows.

AFTER THAT, I go for what I am preparing the environment for:

4. Speaker replacement, all four doors. The stock tweeters will be retained. Probably 2-way 6-1/2", likely Polk (I've recently put them in my Suburban and like the soundstage a lot, especially for the money, and they don't require an external amp to sound good unlike many of the other credible choices.)

5. A small sub under the passenger seat. Still evaluating what will fit there; I'd go for some 6x9s in the rear and an amp to drive them but that would be a LOT more expensive because I'd have to pay for the BOSE-compatible rear shelf cover or it's a massive amount of work as I'd have to hack up my existing shelf and figure out mounting -- and it looks like a real BITCH to get that shelf completely out to work on it. That is, however, the other option for those who want to chase this path -- put quality 6x9s in that shelf along with a dedicated amp that can drive two of them in parallel and feed that with the sub output. In addition a small sub under the pax seat SHOULD be able to be fed off a 10A fuse, which means I can take power for it from expansion space in the existing panel without having to drill the firewall. That's a big plus.

6. Head unit replacement, so as to be able to properly cross over and drive the sub.

My TOTAL investment for the entire shooting match should be right around $1,000. For that I should wind up with both a materially quieter car AND a sound system that materially exceeds what you could get with the BOSE package in terms of quality, WITHOUT the problems people are having with the stock head unit. More SPL is easily added to that with an amp but I don't think I'll need or want it. In addition it's all reversible down the road should I ever decide to sell the car (although that looks unlikely at this point.)
 
#20 · (Edited)
People give the stock BOSE system so much slack, but it really isn't that bad. You have to spend significantly more to upgrade the base system to something better or comparable. Like I said, with the deadening and sound barrier materials I put in the front doors the bass is much better but still lacking a bit. Compare it to the stock or upgraded options in this class (even the Altima BOSE system) and it's at the top of the list for best sound/value.

I tried to add in a sub and an amp but our alternator is too weak to handle it. I had to take it out. The only thing the BOSE system really needs is more low-end power. The mids/highs are not bad at all nor is the volume. The system has good detail and takes up no additional space in the trunk. Centerpoint greatly expands the sound stage as well.

To add in an amp, you need to do a big 3 upgrade or you will be replacing the alternator every other year. I had to take my sub out now for that reason. That alone makes upgrading the 6 sound system costly, and the BOSE option much more viable. It's not much for the Sun/Sound on the Touring and the GT comes with much more stuff and BOSE standard.

Back to the noise levels, anyone that puts dampening mat in the doors along with a good sound barrier material or spray will net great results. I'm doing the wheel wells next because tire noise is a huge issue.


The best BOSE systems in cars are found on the high end. Ours is a cheap BOSE system with most of the components carrying over from previous Mazda BOSE systems (same P/N for the dash speakers, deck speakers, etc.).. none of which are poor.


TL;DR.. getting stock sound to surpass the BOSE system will cost you thousands. I promise.
 
#22 ·
Keep me posted. The stock alternator can barely sustain the power draw from my 300W RMS Class-D amp at low gain, so the power is where you need to spend the most with either a second battery or alternator upgrade IF you want to add amps into the system, and the rear shelf only houses two 3 1/2 inch BOSE drivers on models that have it so you will be cutting out the stock holes to accommodate the 6x9's. With the BOSE system, the front doors have 9" slimline Nd self-amplified drivers in them, you have more space there for large speakers.. just not very much depth with any of the doors.
 
#23 ·
Right -- I've had all the door panels off doing the exterior-panel dampening already. They get to come off again of course for the remaining of the isolation treatment and speaker replacement.

I was not impressed with the options for mounting any sort of low-frequency driver on the package shelf, so it's not going there. My current plan is to see what I can fit under the passenger seat, which will be quite limited -- but that's ok, as I'm not trying to shake the car -- just fill in the ~30-200Hz area range that cannot be reproduced in a reasonable fashion by speakers in the doors (and the dash.) Since that part of the spectrum is non-directional and I'm not trying to rattle the house across the street I suspect ~100W (in other words, 10 Amps) is sufficient for this. I have a modest sub paired with some decent studio monitors in my office which was approached with the same goal -- it works exceptionally well as it allowed me to pick the monitors for their fidelity in the midrange and high end, ignoring everything under 200Hz for those speakers. I can't shake the windows, but I can play it plenty loud enough for me -- and it's CLEAN.

The problem with the factory installation (non-BOSE here) is that the speakers in the doors simply don't have the ability to accurately produce midrange and at the same time reach down into the lower octaves once you turn it up at all. Getting those low octaves off those drivers is going to make a huge difference standing alone. The dash already has reasonably-capable tweeters in it, and replacing the door speakers with something that has a nice, flat response curve from ~200Hz - 20kHz, along with a decent EQ, would be expected to make a tremendous difference.

When I listened to the GT with the BOSE system I found the lower octaves fairly muddy and the imaging indistinct. I didn't think it was worth ANYTHING over the non-BOSE unit, other than being able to play at higher volume without completely going to Hell. The stock unit gets muddy very fast and probably for the same reason; it's simply a matter of asking relatively small drivers to reproduce lower octaves at a reasonable listening level, which they can't do -- but there's no other option since there's no large-driver speaker available.

The fix for that is to get those octaves off those drivers. My Suburban has a Bose system in it that HAS a sub -- and not a particularly large one either (8") in the back. It does reasonably well -- for this reason.

As for power a small sub will pull less than 10 amps. That's not going to be a problem given that I don't have the BOSE system to start with.

Now I agree that if I want to get LOUD then I'm going to be looking at wiring + probably a replacement alternator + a big fat filter cap somewhere, and suddenly all the mounting problems become rather acute. But I don't think I need to go there to get what I'm looking for.
 
#26 ·
I'm not going to act like I know much about car acoustics, but I do know most Bose systems in vehicles these days are not very good. This goes for my G37 and for my '14 Mazda 6. I'm not sure about the statement that the best Bose systems go to high end cars. By that point, the name Bose appears nowhere on the car. Some of these cars have systems that option out for $7-$15K in excess of stock systems. In some of the audiophile forums the common nomenclature for systems in our category isn't Bose, it's "Blose". Again, I'm no expert, but I have a feeling the audiophiles are right. That said, considering the trash in our cars made to pass for a proper infotainment system, the Bose stereo is the least of my complaints. You're all free to come to your own conclusions.
 
#27 ·
Bose cheats; they use psychoacoustic modeling (which is very easy to do) and mid-bass boost to get what many people like.

The problem is, it really sucks, but unless you've heard good audio and know what it's supposed to sound like you'll probably like it.

If you do, that's all fine and well. But if you know what a particular piece of music is supposed to sound like, well......
 
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