Replaced rotors at 30K - Page 2 - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
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post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-08-2015, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M6-um View Post
I find the stock brakes to be subpar. I thought they just needed breaking-in but 8k miles later they still come up short...or long.

I'm glad the OP was able to report that aftermarket parts allowed the car to stop faster. I bet adding stainless steel brake lines would've been an even better improvement.
I never liked the brakes since day one. It's, as you said, subpar. It's a shame that Mazda simply cut corners on these cheap, small rotors. These small rotors, 11.7", just look ridiculous on my 19" stock wheels! However, my new Centric rotors will lasts longer but will not stop any shorter since they are the same small 11.7" size. Unless you are willing to spend big bucks, close to 2K, to get a big brake kit, you are not going to get any significant performance improvement. Quality rotors and better pads will last longer.

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post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-08-2015, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by flash gordon View Post
I never liked the brakes since day one. It's, as you said, subpar. It's a shame that Mazda simply cut corners on these cheap, small rotors. These small rotors, 11.7", just look ridiculous on my 19" stock wheels! However, my new Centric rotors will lasts longer but will not stop any shorter since they are the same small 11.7" size. Unless you are willing to spend big bucks, close to 2K, to get a big brake kit, you are not going to get any significant performance improvement. Quality rotors and better pads will last longer.
I also have 19's. Sucks to hear that the braking didn't appear to have shortened.

We have low rolling resistance tires not to mention tall gearing. I find myself having to go to manual mode and downshift to help the brakes out if needing to stop quickly. I think a switch to sticker tires and smaller/wider wheels could help.

That said I'm going to check if Sport Mode tightens up stopping reponse.

Last edited by M6-um; 12-08-2015 at 04:09 PM.
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post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-08-2015, 08:04 PM
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I think a switch to sticker tires and smaller/wider wheels could help.
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires made a bigger difference in braking than I expected. I'll never go back to those awful Dunlops.
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post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by amd20x6 View Post
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires made a bigger difference in braking than I expected. I'll never go back to those awful Dunlops.
Those Dunlops were really bad, and only lasted me 28K. With the exceptions of cheap brakes and poor tires, both were replaced under 30K, unusual for a new car, I like the Mazda. The steering is better than most car, really precise. With the strut bar, the handling is good. The seats are comfortable. Also it has timing chain instead of belt so we don't have to replace them at 60K like most Japanese cars.

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post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 09:35 AM
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Okay so driving home through 20 miles of moderate street traffic yesterday I was in manual mode 100% of the time. It really helps out on braking tremendously. Here's my findings:

1. I can get to 60 mph while in 2nd gear. This allows 2nd gear to be versatile in many city traffic conditions.

2. Depending on speed, I found downshifting from 5th gear to 3rd or 4th gear to 2nd optimal for my braking requirements which are not met while in automatic mode. The engine braking helps minimize brake dive and works in conjunction with the brake rotors/pads. Question: does this improve brake rotor/pad life? I'm still learning the best balance in terms of engine braking and pedal braking as to provide a smooth process. So far I'm loving this car a lot more right now.

3. Upshifting from 2nd to 4th or 3rd to 5th allows me to increase my mpgs.

4. The max torque comes in at 3250 rpms. Power should be available between 3250 through about 6000 rpms.

5. 6th gear is not needed on the street unless going over 60mph. I found 5th gear to be the highest gear needed on streets to maintain high mpgs under 60 mph.

6. I kind of wish I had paddle shifters.

7. The stock headers and piping under the car sounds pretty good for factory equipment while in the 3250-6000 range in 2nd-3rd gear. I checked the piping and man...its pretty big for a family car. The muffler appears to be the weak link.

8. Happy with braking while in manual mode. I still think stainless steel brakelines and maybe higher spec brake fluid could help the stock system. Stickier tires would definitely improve braking.

Last edited by M6-um; 12-09-2015 at 09:37 AM.
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post #16 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M6-um View Post
Okay so driving home through 20 miles of moderate street traffic yesterday I was in manual mode 100% of the time. It really helps out on braking tremendously. Here's my findings:

1. I can get to 60 mph while in 2nd gear. This allows 2nd gear to be versatile in many city traffic conditions.

2. Depending on speed, I found downshifting from 5th gear to 3rd or 4th gear to 2nd optimal for my braking requirements which are not met while in automatic mode. The engine braking helps minimize brake dive and works in conjunction with the brake rotors/pads. Question: does this improve brake rotor/pad life? I'm still learning the best balance in terms of engine braking and pedal braking as to provide a smooth process. So far I'm loving this car a lot more right now.

3. Upshifting from 2nd to 4th or 3rd to 5th allows me to increase my mpgs.

4. The max torque comes in at 3250 rpms. Power should be available between 3250 through about 6000 rpms.

5. 6th gear is not needed on the street unless going over 60mph. I found 5th gear to be the highest gear needed on streets to maintain high mpgs under 60 mph.

6. I kind of wish I had paddle shifters.

7. The stock headers and piping under the car sounds pretty good for factory equipment while in the 3250-6000 range in 2nd-3rd gear. I checked the piping and man...its pretty big for a family car. The muffler appears to be the weak link.

8. Happy with braking while in manual mode. I still think stainless steel brakelines and maybe higher spec brake fluid could help the stock system. Stickier tires would definitely improve braking.
I have read an article long time ago in Car & Driver. It stated that regular use of engine braking (down shift) will cause earlier engine failure (racing is different because they rebuild the engine after each race). Down shifts revs up the engine rpm. Using 2nd and 3rd for prolong period also keep the revs high, not to mention higher gas consumption. It would be cheaper to replace rotors and pads than to repair a motor.

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post #17 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 10:24 AM
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I have read an article long time ago in Car & Driver. It stated that regular use of engine braking (down shift) will cause earlier engine failure (racing is different because they rebuild the engine after each race).
Horsecrap. Engine braking provides materially less load on the engine and driveline than does acceleration. When using the engine to brake you are using only the compression available in terms of load on the reciprocating parts; there is no burning fuel. Since said burning fuel must provide more impulse then the compression (otherwise it wouldn't be an engine as it wouldn't make any power at all) this sort of claim is illogical nonsense.

They can run that garbage past my '03 Jetta which has over 200k miles on it now (I gave the car to my kid a while back) and is still on the original clutch despite having been mildly hopped up -- and which I aggressively engine-braked in the entire time I owned it. The cylinder head has never been off but the last time I saw the top end (when changing the timing belt) there was no evidence of material wear there either, and over a 10k oil interval it still, at 200k miles, consumes less than a quart.
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post #18 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash gordon View Post
I have read an article long time ago in Car & Driver. It stated that regular use of engine braking (down shift) will cause earlier engine failure (racing is different because they rebuild the engine after each race). Down shifts revs up the engine rpm. Using 2nd and 3rd for prolong period also keep the revs high, not to mention higher gas consumption. It would be cheaper to replace rotors and pads than to repair a motor.
Moderation is key.

On my 20 mile moderate street traffic trip I averaged 26 mpgs per the trip computer in manual mode. The same trip in auto mode gives me 28 mpgs for reference. This indicates my manual mode manipulation is pretty efficient considering some spirited driving (just for testing purposes) was thrown in.

In automatic mode while street driving your car is in constant 2nd and 3rd gear anyways. One cannot get away from using those gears in those times where your going 15-20mph. Hence engines that see lots of open freeway mileage tend to accumulate high miles but still run smooth. Unfortunately some of us drive through congested streets/freeways . I'm confident the skyactiv engine can take it. In manual mode you can go 1st, 2nd, to 4th gear as I did to increase mpgs and which also lessens rpms-lessening engine strain.

Whether auto or manual mode getting to and staying at the peak torque at 3250 rpms for a few seconds is no sweat for this engine granted its not a high revving old school v-tec engine. In street driving you may want to get from 30 at 2000 rpms to 45 mph at 3250 for a moment. Once at 45 mph or 50mph upshift from 3rd to 5th and then cruise/coast. On the flip side down shifting from 5th gear at 2000 rpms to 3rd gear 4000 rpms while also pedal braking is a far cry from engine braking to redline.

Regular oil changes and transmission oil change at 30-40k miles should help to protect mechanical parts.
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post #19 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by M6-um View Post
6. I kind of wish I had paddle shifters.
I added paddles to my 2014 Touring for under $200. Start at post #15 - http://forum.mazda6club.com/models-t...etrofit-2.html
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post #20 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 03:48 PM
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Yeah bull caca

Quote:
Originally Posted by flash gordon View Post
I have read an article long time ago in Car & Driver. It stated that regular use of engine braking (down shift) will cause earlier engine failure (racing is different because they rebuild the engine after each race). Down shifts revs up the engine rpm. Using 2nd and 3rd for prolong period also keep the revs high, not to mention higher gas consumption. It would be cheaper to replace rotors and pads than to repair a motor.
Downshifting is part of the fun especially on a car that begs to be revved. I had a guy at work tell me it was also "bad for the car". Maybe on a auto from 1966 but if Mazda outfitted our cars with a manual mode then you know they expect it to be used to downshift and engine brake.

Also +1 on the Michelin AS3. HUGE difference in braking, handling and noise.

Also I will say that I find the 6's brakes to be a helluva lot better than my previous Ford-sourced Mazda brakes. Those use to warp if I looked ta them funny. These have held up pretty well so far. We'll see what happens in the dead of winter with the temperature cycles. Also realize that Skyactiv was about reducing weight, so I'm guessing the brakes did go on a bit of a diet, which means less metal for heat dissipation.

I'm OK replacing rotors at 30K. Especially if I don't need to have them resurfaced before then.

I suspect any Mazdaspeed variant will have beefed up brakes.

I will echo that this is really well-engineered car. HUGE leap from the Ford-Mazda products in terms of materials and build quality. This thing is tight with zero structural or trim noises like squeaks and rattles.

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