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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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A little help if you have a moment

I'll keep it as short as possible. Last Thursday I came across a deal too good to pass up. A loaded Black/Black leather interior 6s that ran and drove for $700. The seller was honest and told me the car would start chugging and jerking after it got to running temp. He just didn't want to deal with it anymore and just wanted it gone.

Upon first look at the car I noticed one small vacuum leak and a bunch of duct tape around the duct from the air box to the TB. I didn't hear any really bad knocks and when I drove it cold it felt decent. I figured at worst I could part it out for a few grand or resell it or something. But my goal was to fix it and drive it. After totaling my last 2 Minis I just dont want a car payment right now.

Ok back story done. Now, here it what I'm dealing with. The car runs and drives decent when it's cold, but when it gets to operating temp shit goes south. Under any sort of load it will hesitate and herk and jerk. Tonight I finally got frustrated and pinned it on the freeway. It would get to 5k rpm in 3rd and stay there, before the engine light came on flashing (misfire)

The other day when it misfired I pulled the codes and it gave me cyl. 1 (top left) misfire. I have since changed the plugs, boots, and windings. When I changed them today I made sure to move rotate the the coil packs straight down.

I was also getting codes for the EGR and the the boost circuit. I took the EGR off and cleaned it and checked the ohms on the 6 pin connector. everything seems to be really good shape. I also cant find any vacuum leaks.

So today, after doing the following since friday: EGR cleaning, replacing airbox to TB duct, new air filter, new plugs/boots/windings, a few other small things, like brakes, fluids, the obvious stuff. I took the car out for another test and like i said i pinned it and it was stuck in 3rd at 5k. I can drive the car ok if I keep it in slap stick and only use 1/4 throttle and keep it around 3k rpm. but thats just not going to work.

So after putting the car through the paces today and only having slight improvements (like it wont die if I come to a complete stop and keep it in gear). These are the codes I pulled after a 15-20 minute road test:

P0304: cylinder 4 misfire (the cylinder I move the perceived bad coil pack to)
P0152: 02 sensor circuit. High voltage bank 2 sensor 1
P1487: EGR CHK (boost) solenoid circuit

My thoughts are I've already thrown a few hundred at perceived problems to no avail.
I believe I have a bad coil pack since the misfire followed where I put the pack. I also think the 02 sensor error is a symptom from misfires
I did the EGR mod from justin, I think I know how to do the bypass but I can't find a tutorial since 6crew is down, and I dont know if that would fix anything.

I'll try a new coil pack and doing the EGR bypass, but after that I think I'll have to throw my hands up and bring it to a garage because I'm honestly out of ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

-Tony
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Update:

I just ran up to get some food and see what I could do with the car at full temp under load.

As soon as I pulled into my garage I pulled the supposed bad coil, there was no change in idle. But pulling the connector next to gave me a momentary slight drop in idle.

I also did detect a vacuum leak. Its coming from the plug nearest the EGR on the back of the intake manifold. (the one that doesn't use a clamp) I have no clue what that vacuum does, but I'm going to assume it has something to do with either the EGR, or the lean code I've randomly been getting. Not sure, like I said any suggestions are welcome.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 12:07 AM
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Is it lunch time in your place?

If I'm not mistaken, the vacuum pressure is part of the braking system. I don't know what else it does in a car.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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I thought the middle line in the manifold went straight to the brake booster, thats the line I used to seafoam the motor.

Oh, and thank you for the gracious welcome...
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 01:18 AM
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if you moved the coil and the code followed the coil, recheck that everything is connected and seated properly and quit beating on it until you replace that coil.

P0304: cylinder 4 misfire (the cylinder I move the perceived bad coil pack to)

you sound logical with your reasoning about the coil and coils do often act up when hot before they fail completely. if you want to move that coil one more time to verify the problem follows, move it to the location that will be easiest to ice... and then ice that coil with the engine hot and see if the problem goes away.. ie:

i have put snow in a bag to ice a honda distributor to limp home an integra with a bad ignitor, i have gotten my prelude 25 miles home with a bag of ice from a gas station when it started failing hot, i have even helped a gentleman in a 50's chevy get home with ice from a restaraunt in a baggy nested around an old oil filled 6 volt coil. he was so happy he still keeps in touch. he thought i was nuts. instead of giving up he drove it like that to the carshow/cruise night he was intending to go to. sounds dumb/works great (and is free) or skip it. i know it sounds kinda dumb. odd advice. works though

i just signed up here two days ago. i asked about common issues and was warned.. well.. read it.. see here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevil6 View Post
some things to worry about on the first gens are plugs/coils because they are known to fail, because of this pre-cat and catalytic converter failure are also very common these cause ALOT of them to die because the egr can suck the dust from the failing pre-cats into the intake and then they eat themselves alive. the front control arms are also a common failure point. it also seems quite common for the front crank seal and the cam seal to fail, not sure how much you already know about these engines but the water pumps are on the back of the engine driven by the bank 2 (front side) exhaust cam. if you search around here enough there are lots of useful threads about these things. most of these however only occur when maintenance is neglected.
^^^^literally sounds like a bunch of what you're dealing with.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thats crazy, because the first things I read were about the EGR and how it's been a problem on first gen Mazda 6's. I could give 2 shits about a CEL because I live in the land of 10,000 lakes and no emission testing (thank you Jesse Ventura). But yeah, I'm not even going to bother trying cylinder 5 or 6, I'm just going to buy another pack in the morning and see if I can't find a DIY on the EGR bypass somewhere. I'm 90% sure on what to do. But every definitive link to a proper DIY brings me to the "6crew" site which is defunct... I have seen the after market kits, but they dont address the vacuum stuff.

Thanks for the reply.

I used to packs of ice to cool down my inner-cooler between laps at autocross...
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 01:27 PM
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The coils on these engines only seem to last reliably to somewhere around 100K miles. After that they seem to start to fail. If you have a misfire, this is likely the issue. I would replace all 6 coils with new ones. Also, the plastic clips that hold the electrical connection to the coil become brittle with age. I had one or two of the retaining levers fail and had to use zip ties to hold the connections on. Keep an eye out for this when you replace the coils. This should solve your misfire issue.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waughoo View Post
The coils on these engines only seem to last reliably to somewhere around 100K miles. After that they seem to start to fail. If you have a misfire, this is likely the issue. I would replace all 6 coils with new ones. Also, the plastic clips that hold the electrical connection to the coil become brittle with age. I had one or two of the retaining levers fail and had to use zip ties to hold the connections on. Keep an eye out for this when you replace the coils. This should solve your misfire issue.

This is sound advice with the V6. The chances of this fixing your problem are high. Something to consider (happened to me) is if the misfire has been prolonged then it likely caused damage to the catalyst. My upstream converters melted and ended up clogging the downstream converters. The problem was I only replaced the upstream ones and when the downstream ones finally clogged up (wouldn't rev past about 4000 RPM and misfiring) they destroyed my new upstream ones, sigh.


Before you get deeper into it you could climb under and give the exhaust pipe a little shake to see if you hear your catalytic converter entrails.



At least you would know how deep/far-gone you are in.


Odds are the coils will fix it.


Good luck


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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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I'm basically at a loss now. I replaced the perceived faulty coil pack, things improved slightly, but when I took it for a test run same shit, jerking on acceleration, blah blah.

It through 3 more codes at me
Random misfires
retarded timing in bank 1
and of course the EGR booster

The only consistent code ive gotten is EGR stuff. so its off to the hardware store I go to just delete the damn thing. After that I'm throwing my hands up and bringing it in.

I would replace all the coil packs, but they all show good spark and It costs like $300 to do that. I would rather have a mechanic go through the ignition system for a hundred bucks and give me a proper diagnosis.

One thing I did notice was that one cyl. 6 when I pulled the coil pack off while running the thing was still sparking inside the boot, and it wasnt anywhere near a ground source. Not sure what thats about, cylinders 4 and 5 didnt do that.

I'll keep you guys posted, I would hate to actually bring my car to a mechanic because I failed. But the costs are adding up, at least the EGR delete will be cheap...
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skimsmilk View Post
I'm basically at a loss now. I replaced the perceived faulty coil pack, things improved slightly, but when I took it for a test run same shit, jerking on acceleration, blah blah.

It through 3 more codes at me
Random misfires
retarded timing in bank 1
and of course the EGR booster

The only consistent code ive gotten is EGR stuff. so its off to the hardware store I go to just delete the damn thing. After that I'm throwing my hands up and bringing it in.

I would replace all the coil packs, but they all show good spark and It costs like $300 to do that. I would rather have a mechanic go through the ignition system for a hundred bucks and give me a proper diagnosis.

One thing I did notice was that one cyl. 6 when I pulled the coil pack off while running the thing was still sparking inside the boot, and it wasnt anywhere near a ground source. Not sure what thats about, cylinders 4 and 5 didnt do that.

I'll keep you guys posted, I would hate to actually bring my car to a mechanic because I failed. But the costs are adding up, at least the EGR delete will be cheap...

Here is the list for diagnostic:
1. Low oil pressure
2. Loose timing chain or improper valve timing
3. Spool valve in OCV is stuck in retard position
4. Clogged or leaking oiil runners
-Between oil pressure switch and OCV
-Between OCV and variable valve timing actuator
-In variable valve timing actuator
5. Variable valve timing actuator is stuck in retard position
6. PCM malfunction


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