Knocking noise, shop says it's a top end issue.. - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
User Tag List

 3Likes
  • 1 Post By Get Inline
  • 2 Post By b1lk1
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
Learners License
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Knocking noise, shop says it's a top end issue..

Howdy all,

About 18 months ago, I was driving my 2006 mazda 6, V6, manual, near O'hare airport. With 138,000 miles. Driving along I had a sudden loss of power, which recovered shortly afterwords, then the engine died.

I pulled over, attempted restart. The car started and had a loud ticking noise. So I had the car towed to my favorite shop.

Needing a car, I went and got a new car. Last night, I went and tried to do my own work on the car.

I have video of the engine running... but low post count..

The shop said it was a failed cam bearing, in the rear bank. the noise appears to come from the front bank, and seems to match the cam drive speed, rather than crank speed.

What would ~you~ do?

Here's the options I'd like to get advice on:

First, new (used) heads. Is this a sane option? Which heads are compatible? (finding v6 mazda engines is difficult...)

Second, new (used) engine. Which engines are a direct swap?

Third, repair of the existing heads. Cost? Time?

Finally, "give up, sell it to the junker place."

So what would you do, what should I do?

Thank you.
nerobro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 11:54 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Groans: 9
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerobro View Post
Howdy all,

About 18 months ago, I was driving my 2006 mazda 6, V6, manual, near O'hare airport. With 138,000 miles. Driving along I had a sudden loss of power, which recovered shortly afterwords, then the engine died.

I pulled over, attempted restart. The car started and had a loud ticking noise. So I had the car towed to my favorite shop.

Needing a car, I went and got a new car. Last night, I went and tried to do my own work on the car.

I have video of the engine running... but low post count..

The shop said it was a failed cam bearing, in the rear bank. the noise appears to come from the front bank, and seems to match the cam drive speed, rather than crank speed.

What would ~you~ do?

Here's the options I'd like to get advice on:

First, new (used) heads. Is this a sane option? Which heads are compatible? (finding v6 mazda engines is difficult...)

Second, new (used) engine. Which engines are a direct swap?

Third, repair of the existing heads. Cost? Time?

Finally, "give up, sell it to the junker place."

So what would you do, what should I do?

Thank you.
You can probably just rebuild your existing cylinder head. Might be easier to just replace the cylinder heads all together though. I would suggest also looking for Ford's "Duratec 30" version of this engine, as that might make your search easier they are the identical motor.
Get Inline is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
Learners License
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Do i need to worry about age? Or is that "covered" by the different valve covers, and timing covers, depending on year?

- I own one thing with an automatic. And it's my lawnmower.
- My cylinder count is around 30.
nerobro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 12:55 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Groans: 9
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerobro View Post
Do i need to worry about age? Or is that "covered" by the different valve covers, and timing covers, depending on year?
No. See if you can find a cylinder head from a Jaguar S/X-type. This Mazda engine has been in many different cars. The jaguar version makes more HP and more torque at a lower RPM.
Get Inline is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
Learners License
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
Unless i'm swapping both heads, I suspect that would be a bad idea. Introducing a flow imbalance would lead to one bank running rich, the other lean. that would show up as vibration, even if the mixtures were right.

... more power would be nice though.

I am admittedly, looking for the minimum work repair I could do for this.

- I own one thing with an automatic. And it's my lawnmower.
- My cylinder count is around 30.
nerobro is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 02:10 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Groans: 9
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerobro View Post
Unless i'm swapping both heads, I suspect that would be a bad idea. Introducing a flow imbalance would lead to one bank running rich, the other lean. that would show up as vibration, even if the mixtures were right.

... more power would be nice though.

I am admittedly, looking for the minimum work repair I could do for this.
Right, good point I completely forgot about that. I am so used to working on Inline 4's and my inline 6 engine with one cylinder head, lol.

I think your best bet would be to just rebuild your current cylinder head. take of the other one while you're at it to port and polish the valves for improved power, maybe rebuild the valve stem seals too.
nerobro likes this.
Get Inline is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 03:29 PM
Registered User
 
b1lk1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Lindsay, Ontario
Posts: 819
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Thanks: 27
Thanked 75 Times in 70 Posts
Groans: 19
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
1. Find out what is actually wrong with your engine. A failed cam bearing makes almost NO sense on these, or pretty much ANY OHC engine. Sounds like they used a dart board to diagnose it.
2. You need to do a health check on the entire engine before peeling off heads. A compression test and leakdown test MUST be done before figuring out your next step.
3. The 6cyl and 4cyl share nothing. They are completely different motors.
4. All the different 3.0 Duratecs are just that, different. The valvetrains are different and they have different castings and covers. Fusion engines work but you need to change over some Mazda bits.
5. Mazda has discontinued the OCV valves for the 3.0. The Fusion and 6 use very different timing guides as well as valve covers and coils. Things do swap over, but pick extremely carefully. I believe only up to 2009 3.0 Fusion engines will swap in and work.
6. Stay very very far away from Jaguar parts as they are also different from the Fusion and 6. You cannot mix and match parts without issues.


Your best bet is NOT to rebuild the head. Your best bet is doing some research and finding a low mileage Fusion 3.0 to drop in. It is a very involved swap and won't be cheap. This is not an easy car to pull the motor out unless you have access to a lift then you can somewhat easily lift the body off the front subframe and lower the engine/trans out all in one piece. Much easier to work on it this way too.


Mazda 3.0's are hard to come by and by now all have a lot of miles and are mostly not worth the money. Mazda is discontinuing a lot of the major parts of them and you will spend far more than needed.


As for if the car is worth fixing, you will spend as much as it is worth to fix it, but you won't have payments and you know everything that is wrong with it. Choice is yours really.
nerobro and Get Inline like this.

2004 Mazda 6s 3.0 5dr. 5spd never ending money vacuum project:
CP-E headers w/catted mid + Magnaflow carback/AEM CAI/3.7L TB/Speed6 springs/RX-8 wheels
AWR 70D Enginemount/CP-E Dogbone/Custom urethane stock trans mount
Ralco shortshifter/Bose w/Auxmod/sharkfin antenna/lots of little things...
b1lk1 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to b1lk1 For This Useful Post:
Get Inline (09-19-2018)
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 03:47 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Groans: 9
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
1. Find out what is actually wrong with your engine. A failed cam bearing makes almost NO sense on these, or pretty much ANY OHC engine. Sounds like they used a dart board to diagnose it.
2. You need to do a health check on the entire engine before peeling off heads. A compression test and leakdown test MUST be done before figuring out your next step.
3. The 6cyl and 4cyl share nothing. They are completely different motors.
4. All the different 3.0 Duratecs are just that, different. The valvetrains are different and they have different castings and covers. Fusion engines work but you need to change over some Mazda bits.
5. Mazda has discontinued the OCV valves for the 3.0. The Fusion and 6 use very different timing guides as well as valve covers and coils. Things do swap over, but pick extremely carefully. I believe only up to 2009 3.0 Fusion engines will swap in and work.
6. Stay very very far away from Jaguar parts as they are also different from the Fusion and 6. You cannot mix and match parts without issues.


Your best bet is NOT to rebuild the head. Your best bet is doing some research and finding a low mileage Fusion 3.0 to drop in. It is a very involved swap and won't be cheap. This is not an easy car to pull the motor out unless you have access to a lift then you can somewhat easily lift the body off the front subframe and lower the engine/trans out all in one piece. Much easier to work on it this way too.


Mazda 3.0's are hard to come by and by now all have a lot of miles and are mostly not worth the money. Mazda is discontinuing a lot of the major parts of them and you will spend far more than needed.


As for if the car is worth fixing, you will spend as much as it is worth to fix it, but you won't have payments and you know everything that is wrong with it. Choice is yours really.
Great information. Thanks for sharing.
Get Inline is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
Learners License
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
iTrader: 0 reviews
well, that really narrows it down. "I already bought the new car" This was just to be a "thing that might be a net positive".

the clacking noise, if I weren't told it was the top end. Says "rod desctruction" to me.

And that then tells me the oil change I had 40 miles earlier is to blame.

.. now I want to pull the pan, and poke at that end.

Honestly, that would make more sense, overall.

I apreciate all of you being a foil to bounce this off of.

- I own one thing with an automatic. And it's my lawnmower.
- My cylinder count is around 30.
nerobro is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 05:04 PM
Registered User
 
Mitchapalooza85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: 0 reviews
Yea Ford & Mazda Parts are as interchangeable like Chevy/GM/Buick Etc products are. Definitely do your home work on this because this won't be a cheap fix by far.
I remember when I had my 2001 Mercury Cougar with the 2.0L Zetec Motor (Blown) which was shared with the ZX2 Escort, Contour, Focus but they had different Bell housing for them so I couldn't mix/mach those motors (Stupid Ford strategy)

2015 Mazda 6 Touring 6 Spd Manual Deep Crystal Blue Metallic- Cork Sport SRI w/Cold Air Box, Racing Beat Exhaust, JBR Short Shift Plate, Full Kicker Audio.
Mitchapalooza85 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome