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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM
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Here is what I have observed - many report 40 to 50 miles before MILs return and I'd suspect its because they ARE meeting the drive cycle requirements for each condition but failing some part of the test once met.

Example - to meet the requirements of the test - Example: During one Ignition cycle (key not turned off), it must run from a cold start of less than 140F, warm to >175F, Be ran on the freeway >2200 RPM, 5th gear, for 3 miles at >44 <47MPH, then 5 miles >54 <58mph, the mil stays off, No DTC errors. If these conditions are met the MIL stays off. Many trips will NEVER meet these conditions so the mil stays off. i.e. should a drive cycle meet these conditions but the EGR or CAT temp or cycles of O2 sensor voltage not pass the test, the MIL is triggered.

All these events are in the 2006 FSM and it details what needs to happen to meet the drive cycle condition and pass.

Follow the link above and open the CSV file I created. Go into Torque and ADD those parameters (the headers from my file) to the "What to Log" screen. Also set the log interval to at least 0.25 seconds or shorter. Post up the log and lets look.

You might want to include both Bank#s for Sensor2 readings.

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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 08:49 AM
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I setup graphs for all 4 O2 sensors and I think I found the issue. Bank 1 Sensor 2 didn't appear to be moving very much. It would move but it was mostly flat lined. The other 3 sensors were jumping up and down. How does that make sense? The CEL code was P0431, which is bank 2 not bank 1. Is the code wrong or is the torque app reading the wrong sensor? I guess I'll unplug the O2's until I figure out which one is flat lining.

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Last edited by Blackcoog; 02-27-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaAndrew View Post
Well, for those of you still following this -- I bought the front precat and I am ready to install it. I went to the Mazda dealer and spent $50 on new nuts and bolts. This is a picture of the precat -- I paid $230 from a Canadian maker of exhaust systems.

The picture is here ...

Ow.ly - image uploaded by @andrewMatte

I am taking it to my mechanic on Monday and we'll see how it goes.

Thanks !

How did they work out? What was the actual brand. I know Cataran Cats makes them for the 6 also. I was just curious about the fitment on yours.
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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 12:49 PM
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BlackCog, take a look at this post; Front o2 sensors are for driveability, all others are for emissions.

Bank 1 Sensor1, Bank 2 Sensor 1 are seen here. http://forum.mazda6club.com/3-0l-v6/...ml#post3498407

Grab these and upload them
Device Time;
Throttle Position(Manifold)(%);
Engine Load(Absolute)(%);
Engine RPM(rpm);
Timing Advance(°);
Speed (OBD)(mph);
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 2 Long Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 2 Short Term(%)
O2 Volts Bank 1 sensor 1(V);
O2 Volts Bank 2 sensor 1(V);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)(°F);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 2 Sensor 1)(°F);
EGR Commanded(%);
Engine Coolant Temperature(°F);

ADD these:
O2 Volts Bank 1 sensor 2(V);
O2 Volts Bank 2 sensor 2(V);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)(°F);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 2 Sensor 2)(°F);


Also - dump the "Test Results" content on here. it from the main page.

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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 08:05 AM
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I realize the upper O2's are for air/fuel monitoring since they are before the precats. The lowers monitor the catalytic effieciency.

The problem is that the rear lower O2 which monitors the rear cat is not moving very much if at all when I'm monitoring it. All others are fine. The rear is bank 1. The check engine light code I'm getting is P0431 which is for bank 2. The code is wrong. I even tried a different lower O2 last night. The rear precat or the rear main cat has some type of obstruction reducing air flow. I'm even noticing slight misfires on bank 1 (cylinder 1 and 3 after the car is warmed up on rare occations) which can be cause by a clogged cat.

There are new COP units on all cylinders so I know those are good.

See the log file. Not all the variables you listed are attached but I can add them and re-log it. Compare the upper and lower bank 1 O2 signals. You'll see what I mean.
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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcoog View Post
I realize the upper O2's are for air/fuel monitoring since they are before the precats. The lowers monitor the catalytic effieciency.

The problem is that the rear lower O2 which monitors the rear cat is not moving very much if at all when I'm monitoring it. All others are fine. The rear is bank 1. The check engine light code I'm getting is P0431 which is for bank 2. The code is wrong. I even tried a different lower O2 last night. The rear precat or the rear main cat has some type of obstruction reducing air flow. I'm even noticing slight misfires on bank 1 (cylinder 1 and 3 after the car is warmed up on rare occations) which can be cause by a clogged cat.

There are new COP units on all cylinders so I know those are good.

See the log file. Not all the variables you listed are attached but I can add them and re-log it. Compare the upper and lower bank 1 O2 signals. You'll see what I mean.
Looks like the B2S2 is very lazy/slow as it took so long to come on line. So either its dying or its not getting energy to heat it. Because you have no errors for that - its just slow. I can't say its the CAT but if the cat is plugged it would explain why it took longer to come one line as it didn't reach temp as quickly as the others. ** You have new coils in place so i have to ask this; how long did you run with a misfire and what coils were defective???**

Add your long and short term fuel trims and you get a better idea of what the engine is doing. Then get it to steady state for period of time. Also you might add in the CAT Temp for sensor 1 and sensor 2. That should help you see what the CAT is or ISn't doing.

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Last edited by Final Impact; 02-28-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 01:36 PM
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What is important to note is that your capture period is 0.5 seconds and ALLOT can change in that period of time. Mine seems to handle 0.1 sec updates. As long as you remove a few unneeded parameters, you can add the essential ones and continue to capture good results.

@Blackcoog - prelimanary
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post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 04:05 PM
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Did you note how dead b1s2 is? Graph it. Its flat nearly the entire time. Popped a misfire on cylinder3 today and still have p0431.

This is a fusion motor which was just swapped in. I bought the car with a bad motor. Old cop units were giving random misfires and horrible idle. Both lower or post cat sensors start out at zero for a minute or two when cold. Logging must have started just after the bank 1 sensor started up. Ill watch for a difference again and add more pids.

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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 11:42 AM
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I did some more digging and found this excerpt:

If the signal from the downstream oxygen sensor starts to mirror that from the upstream oxygen sensor(s), it means converter efficiency has dropped off and the converter isn't cleaning up the pollutants in the exhaust. If converter efficiency had declined to the point where the vehicle may be exceeding the pollution limit, the PCM will turn on the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) and set a diagnostic trouble code.

A fast flipping lower 02 sensor signal is a sign that the cat is not properly cleaning the exhaust. So the code is correct and the front cat appears to have a issue. This could also explain the slow turn on time of that sensor as mentioned above. The B1S2 sensor which I thought was flat-lining (slow) is functioning normally.

The bank 1 and 3 misfires have me a little confused though... Maybe I'll swap the COP units from bank 1 to bank 2 to see if they follow. I'm not sure if a clogged front cat could cause misfires on the other bank.

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Last edited by Blackcoog; 03-01-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 03-01-2013, 12:05 PM
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Rear sensors are a non-continuous monitor, while the front sensors are a continuous monitor. This why you can have all your monitors up for 40-50 miles (allowing you to pass inspection) before the CEL comes back.
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