WINTER TIRE SHOPPING - came down to 3 - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 / Mazda Atenza Forum

drogos · 10-12-2009, 12:33 PM

I have 05' Wagon.

General conclusions from reviews mainly on tirerack:

Blizzaks - best in snow, deep snow, ice, rather noisy and don't keep performance over thread life. Decent sizes selection.

X-ICE 2 - closest to the all-season tire as it gets on dry surface with comparable performance to blizzaks in snow/ice. LIghter and better in regards to noise/comfort. Great size selection. Lighter than Blizzaks

Dunlop M3 - took into consideration mainly due to raves here and it does perform very well. SLightly below both blizzaks and x ice 2 BUT it's a VERY heavy tire. 9 pounds heavier than my Genral Ultimax HP that i have on stock 17" right now. Very poor size selection.

I am still on the fence whether to go with new smaller rims (16") or just exchange tires on stock wheels. I do a lot of highway miles in Chicago so ride comfort, handling and road noise is extremely important for me. Deep snow traction...well let's just say that after driving in a front wheel drive car on all-season tires for years ...no matter what I pick I will be extremely satisfied.

Keeping that in mind X-ICE seem to be logical joice especially with $70 mail in rebate. Please advise if you have different opinions.

I am still confused about the tire/wheel size though. Smaller rims with taller, thinner tires should equate to similar road noise as wider all0seasons. Definitely better comfort but what about handling?

The hight of the tire wall on different dimater/width combination:

stock 17" (215/50) = 107.5mm
16"(215/60) = 129mm
16"(215/55) = 118.25mm
16"(205/60) = 123mm
16"(205/55) = 112.75mm
16"(205/50) = 102.5mm

I am coming from 2008 Honda civic so I love how I get much better comfort with slightly better handling. I would want to keep it that way. If I go with X- ICE 2 and new rims I can pick any size I want. I don't want to compromise any comfort since it's a daily car that becomes family car on weekends. Than again I am rather spiritted driver in daily commute. SO would above bolded option make most sence in my case??? Only 5mm taller with tiny bit smaller wheel it should give exact same comfort as my stock wheels right now with only slightly decresead cornering performance ??? Any hints and tips highly appreciated. Oh, yeah money is the issue since I have 2 cars to take care of before winter so I would rather replace just the tires but considering the fact that 16" tires are cheaper - 30% of new 16" rims are paid off so I am willing to bite that additional cost. Stocks will last longer and I think I will keep/improve comfort and keep/improve milage if I go with smaller, thinner wheels. What do you guys think?

Mz6GreyGhost · 10-12-2009, 02:01 PM

First, in terms of size, if you do go down to 16" rims, stick with the 205/60-16 size. That's the OEM size for the 16" wheels, and it's well within the 2% tolerance of the 215/50-17s (which I'll assume you have now).

Having driven on that size snow tire since I bought my 6, I can tell you that it'll work well for winter conditions, especially with potholes and rough terrain that's common with winter climates. You'll obviously pay more for the 16" wheels/tires than just the 17" tires initially, but that cost difference will disappear quickly, since the 16" tires are less expensive than the 17" sizes, and after two seasons of paying $20 per tire to swap the winter tires onto your regular rims, it adds up. Not to mention that running winter rims will lower that wear-and-tear that both the rims and tires suffer from being mounted/dismounted twice per year, and it keeps your summer rims from the snow/salt/sand that ruins wheels more quickly over time.

It also seems that you'd enjoy a winter tires that will still handle well on dry days, and perform admirably in the deep snow. In that case, I'd stick with the "performance winter" category. These tires sacrifice a slight amount of extreme snow/ice traction for better handling/grip on dry days, better highway control, and they don't get mushy/sloppy on warmer days, unlike other winter tires. They still work well in snow/slush (as they have for me), and offer more secure ride/handling on clear, dry days.

Being in the snow belt, I experience everything from 6" of unpacked snow to clear highways, and everything in between, sometimes all in the same day! I'm on my second set of "performance winter" tires with the 6 (Dunlop M3s, 205/60-16), and I've never had any problem with snow traction, whether in a parking lot, a slippery hill, or a snow-packed highway. I still like to drive aggressively when it's clear and dry, and the tires don't disappoint there either, offering very good dry grip and a smooth, relatively quiet ride.

If you can't find the Dunlop M3s in the correct size, I know the Dunlop 3Ds (the new-and-improved model) is available in the 205/60-16 size. It seems that Tirerack doesn't have them now, but I know they're available.

Other models that I'd check into as well:
Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3
Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW3

Good luck.

drogos · 10-12-2009, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Mz6GreyGhost @ Oct 12 2009, 10:01 AM)

Quote:

In that case, I'd stick with the "performance winter" category.[/b]

yeap. that was my initial agenda but naming/category aside when you look at the reviews and specs it seems that X-ICE 2 is just that. Performance winter tire. The first generation was sloppy at best in snow/ice but great on dry. They seem to improved on the first part dramatically with the introduction of revised version and now it's 1st on tirerack reviews.

Mz6GreyGhost · 10-13-2009, 07:51 AM

QUOTE (Drogos @ Oct 12 2009, 05:02 PM)

Quote:

They seem to improved on the first part dramatically with the introduction of revised version and now it's 1st on tirerack reviews.[/b]

I'd be VERY careful with the Tirerack reviews. I'm sure that some people are honest and upfront, but there's no guarantee that some of those reviews are not "fluffed" up to make the tires look better and get higher ratings.

I'd take the word of instrumented and objective testing before a bunch of opinions.

That being said, the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 seemed to do well in a recent Tirerack comparison test, and the price is actually reasonable and comparable to the others. (This is unlike most Michelin products, which IMO are WAY overpriced, with performance that doesn't come close to the cost). Although I haven't experienced the tire for myself, it could very well work out for your needs, and I wouldn't hesitate to try a set out if I were in your shoes...

drogos · 10-13-2009, 09:06 AM

QUOTE (Mz6GreyGhost @ Oct 13 2009, 03:51 AM)

Quote:

I'd be VERY careful with the Tirerack reviews. I'm sure that some people are honest and upfront, but there's no guarantee that some of those reviews are not "fluffed" up to make the tires look better and get higher ratings.

I'd take the word of instrumented and objective testing before a bunch of opinions.

That being said, the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 seemed to do well in a recent Tirerack comparison test, and the price is actually reasonable and comparable to the others. (This is unlike most Michelin products, which IMO are WAY overpriced, with performance that doesn't come close to the cost). Although I haven't experienced the tire for myself, it could very well work out for your needs, and I wouldn't hesitate to try a set out if I were in your shoes...[/b]

you are very right about those reviews. WHat's even worse there is a lot of cases of: " oh my wife said that these tires absolutely suck", or "I've put these on my wife's Oddysey and they were worned out after 10k miles ". People don't take into consideration the specifics of their: route, car, driving habits, abused curbs by their wifes, driving on constatnly underinflated tires, tires that were never rotated, cars with messed up alingment that kill the tires in 5k miles and such. They will not admit their mistakes even in front of themselves. They will run up to the computer and spread stupidity just to blame someone or something. Than there is problem with rating itself......9 means something different for me and it will have different meaning for you so there are huge discrepancies right there BUT there is as many legid opinions. With that many opinions all together (often above 1500) it evens out, simple mathematics takes over and mean value will give you somewhat legit number. Supposidly crowd is smarter than the smartest person standing in that crowd when it comes to decission making so ...You know ...it's a start

Yeah X-ICE 2 looks damn good but than there is General Altimax Arctic that gets great reviews and is $38 cheaper than X-ICE 2!!!! I would never even consider that brand but I bought my mazda with Altimax HP (grand touring all season) on it and let me tell you ...these tires absolutely rock. On par with Yokohama avids that I used to have on different car a while ago. So I have my confidence in the brand just got to read little bit more about the tire itself. Will report back

BigBens6 · 10-13-2009, 01:31 PM

I have the X-ice1's and love them, only the WORST of conditions make me nervous... other wise it is smooth sailing, with the TC off i cant do doughnuts in the snow unless it is a foot deep or i am FLOORING it.... great tire IMO...

JML · 10-14-2009, 10:38 PM

I'm getting my 17" Pilot Alpin PA3 tires mounted tomorrow. See here for specs. It'll be a while before I see real snow, but I'll report on how they sound and feel before the snow falls.

drogos · 10-15-2009, 01:21 PM

QUOTE (JML @ Oct 14 2009, 07:38 PM)

Quote:

I'm getting my 17" Pilot Alpin PA3 tires mounted tomorrow. See here for specs. It'll be a while before I see real snow, but I'll report on how they sound and feel before the snow falls.[/b]

I am leaning towrds those too. ALso I was wondering if I can fit them on 2007 16x6.5 Miata wheels. These are pretty sweet. Not sure if they will fit. What's the max offset I can have with 205/60 on 16s????

JML · 10-16-2009, 12:16 AM

I had the Pilot Alpin PA3 installed this afternoon. Note that these are the new Alpins, not the older PA2 and not the Primacy version. My first impressions are very positive, but I hear it takes 500 miles to get tires to start to perform as designed.

Anyway, it was around 45 degrees in the afternoon, and went down to 38 tonight. Rainy all day and into tonight; the usual Pittsburgh fall and winter climate. The tires are great. They're very smooth and seem softer-riding than the OEM all-season Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires at the same PSI (32), but steering and handling is at least as good as the OEMs in normal wet weather driving. They do not feel like touring tires, don't get me wrong. They just seem to roll over bumps better and seem more forgiving, but they're definitely NOT plush-riding pillows! For winter tires, they're extremely quiet -- there is a sound on concrete, but it's more of a "whoosh" than the OEM's slight rumble, more like air turbulence from the Mazda's mirrors. On new highway blacktop, they're incredibly quiet. Overall, they're much, much quieter than the two set of Blizzaks I had on my previous car, a Honda, and they are much quieter than the MXM4 tires. And the wet weather feel of the Alpins just KILLS the Blizzaks. On the highway, up to 80 mph, they're great in the wet. I think they're better in the wet than the MXM4 ever were.

drogos · 10-20-2009, 11:35 AM

QUOTE (JML @ Oct 15 2009, 08:16 PM)

Quote:

I had the Pilot Alpin PA3 installed this afternoon. Note that these are the new Alpins, not the older PA2 and not the Primacy version. My first impressions are very positive, but I hear it takes 500 miles to get tires to start to perform as designed.

Anyway, it was around 45 degrees in the afternoon, and went down to 38 tonight. Rainy all day and into tonight; the usual Pittsburgh fall and winter climate. The tires are great. They're very smooth and seem softer-riding than the OEM all-season Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires at the same PSI (32), but steering and handling is at least as good as the OEMs in normal wet weather driving. They do not feel like touring tires, don't get me wrong. They just seem to roll over bumps better and seem more forgiving, but they're definitely NOT plush-riding pillows! For winter tires, they're extremely quiet -- there is a sound on concrete, but it's more of a "whoosh" than the OEM's slight rumble, more like air turbulence from the Mazda's mirrors. On new highway blacktop, they're incredibly quiet. Overall, they're much, much quieter than the two set of Blizzaks I had on my previous car, a Honda, and they are much quieter than the MXM4 tires. And the wet weather feel of the Alpins just KILLS the Blizzaks. On the highway, up to 80 mph, they're great in the wet. I think they're better in the wet than the MXM4 ever were.[/b]

so You have put them on stock 17s ?
<<edit >>> ups sprry forgot we covered that one already

can't go wrong with PA3 for sure but damn these are expensive especially 17s

10-12-2009, 02:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mz6GreyGhost Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 3,686 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: 0 reviews	First, in terms of size, if you do go down to 16" rims, stick with the 205/60-16 size. That's the OEM size for the 16" wheels, and it's well within the 2% tolerance of the 215/50-17s (which I'll assume you have now). Having driven on that size snow tire since I bought my 6, I can tell you that it'll work well for winter conditions, especially with potholes and rough terrain that's common with winter climates. You'll obviously pay more for the 16" wheels/tires than just the 17" tires initially, but that cost difference will disappear quickly, since the 16" tires are less expensive than the 17" sizes, and after two seasons of paying $20 per tire to swap the winter tires onto your regular rims, it adds up. Not to mention that running winter rims will lower that wear-and-tear that both the rims and tires suffer from being mounted/dismounted twice per year, and it keeps your summer rims from the snow/salt/sand that ruins wheels more quickly over time. It also seems that you'd enjoy a winter tires that will still handle well on dry days, and perform admirably in the deep snow. In that case, I'd stick with the "performance winter" category. These tires sacrifice a slight amount of extreme snow/ice traction for better handling/grip on dry days, better highway control, and they don't get mushy/sloppy on warmer days, unlike other winter tires. They still work well in snow/slush (as they have for me), and offer more secure ride/handling on clear, dry days. Being in the snow belt, I experience everything from 6" of unpacked snow to clear highways, and everything in between, sometimes all in the same day! I'm on my second set of "performance winter" tires with the 6 (Dunlop M3s, 205/60-16), and I've never had any problem with snow traction, whether in a parking lot, a slippery hill, or a snow-packed highway. I still like to drive aggressively when it's clear and dry, and the tires don't disappoint there either, offering very good dry grip and a smooth, relatively quiet ride. If you can't find the Dunlop M3s in the correct size, I know the Dunlop 3Ds (the new-and-improved model) is available in the 205/60-16 size. It seems that Tirerack doesn't have them now, but I know they're available. Other models that I'd check into as well: Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW3 Good luck. __________________ “A republican stands up in congress and says 'I GOT A REALLY BAD IDEA!!' and the democrat stands up after him and says 'AND I CAN MAKE IT SHITTIER!!'” - Lewis Black

10-14-2009, 10:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
JML Learners License Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: 0 reviews	I'm getting my 17" Pilot Alpin PA3 tires mounted tomorrow. See here for specs. It'll be a while before I see real snow, but I'll report on how they sound and feel before the snow falls. __________________ 2008 Mazda6 5-door i-Touring (Volcanic Red)

10-16-2009, 12:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
JML Learners License Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: 0 reviews	I had the Pilot Alpin PA3 installed this afternoon. Note that these are the new Alpins, not the older PA2 and not the Primacy version. My first impressions are very positive, but I hear it takes 500 miles to get tires to start to perform as designed. Anyway, it was around 45 degrees in the afternoon, and went down to 38 tonight. Rainy all day and into tonight; the usual Pittsburgh fall and winter climate. The tires are great. They're very smooth and seem softer-riding than the OEM all-season Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires at the same PSI (32), but steering and handling is at least as good as the OEMs in normal wet weather driving. They do not feel like touring tires, don't get me wrong. They just seem to roll over bumps better and seem more forgiving, but they're definitely NOT plush-riding pillows! For winter tires, they're extremely quiet -- there is a sound on concrete, but it's more of a "whoosh" than the OEM's slight rumble, more like air turbulence from the Mazda's mirrors. On new highway blacktop, they're incredibly quiet. Overall, they're much, much quieter than the two set of Blizzaks I had on my previous car, a Honda, and they are much quieter than the MXM4 tires. And the wet weather feel of the Alpins just KILLS the Blizzaks. On the highway, up to 80 mph, they're great in the wet. I think they're better in the wet than the MXM4 ever were. __________________ 2008 Mazda6 5-door i-Touring (Volcanic Red)

10-12-2009, 12:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
drogos Drivers License Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 86 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: 0 reviews	I have 05' Wagon. General conclusions from reviews mainly on tirerack: Blizzaks - best in snow, deep snow, ice, rather noisy and don't keep performance over thread life. Decent sizes selection. X-ICE 2 - closest to the all-season tire as it gets on dry surface with comparable performance to blizzaks in snow/ice. LIghter and better in regards to noise/comfort. Great size selection. Lighter than Blizzaks Dunlop M3 - took into consideration mainly due to raves here and it does perform very well. SLightly below both blizzaks and x ice 2 BUT it's a VERY heavy tire. 9 pounds heavier than my Genral Ultimax HP that i have on stock 17" right now. Very poor size selection. I am still on the fence whether to go with new smaller rims (16") or just exchange tires on stock wheels. I do a lot of highway miles in Chicago so ride comfort, handling and road noise is extremely important for me. Deep snow traction...well let's just say that after driving in a front wheel drive car on all-season tires for years ...no matter what I pick I will be extremely satisfied. Keeping that in mind X-ICE seem to be logical joice especially with $70 mail in rebate. Please advise if you have different opinions. I am still confused about the tire/wheel size though. Smaller rims with taller, thinner tires should equate to similar road noise as wider all0seasons. Definitely better comfort but what about handling? The hight of the tire wall on different dimater/width combination: stock 17" (215/50) = 107.5mm 16"(215/60) = 129mm 16"(215/55) = 118.25mm 16"(205/60) = 123mm 16"(205/55) = 112.75mm 16"(205/50) = 102.5mm I am coming from 2008 Honda civic so I love how I get much better comfort with slightly better handling. I would want to keep it that way. If I go with X- ICE 2 and new rims I can pick any size I want. I don't want to compromise any comfort since it's a daily car that becomes family car on weekends. Than again I am rather spiritted driver in daily commute. SO would above bolded option make most sence in my case??? Only 5mm taller with tiny bit smaller wheel it should give exact same comfort as my stock wheels right now with only slightly decresead cornering performance ??? Any hints and tips highly appreciated. Oh, yeah money is the issue since I have 2 cars to take care of before winter so I would rather replace just the tires but considering the fact that 16" tires are cheaper - 30% of new 16" rims are paid off so I am willing to bite that additional cost. Stocks will last longer and I think I will keep/improve comfort and keep/improve milage if I go with smaller, thinner wheels. What do you guys think?

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