Alignment problem: dealership can't align properly

[cooldj]

Hi there.

I took my car in for an alignemnt (was pulling to the left slightly). They found out that my tires were also worn out a bit unevenly.
So they do the alignment, leave the dealership. Drive for about 10 seconds, and realize that something is wrong with the steering wheel. I have to keep the steering wheel about 5 degrees towards the right to go straight.

Bring it back in, they check it, say the alignemnt was off, re-do it. take the car for a spin, the steering wheel is now about 2 degrees off. Go to my tire palce to put the tires on, try them, and still the same problem.

Bring the car back at the dealership, come back to get it, they say that they "rotated" the tires. Went and check the car, they placed the right tire to the left of the car and vice versa, although they are unidirectional tires!!! (oh, we didn't know they were unidirectional....)

Yell at them, they apologize, tell me to bring it back in tomorrow.

Question: did anyone have such a hard time having their alignment done? the steering wheel is definitvely slightly off, even with the winter tires on. I'm thinking to take it somewehre else and ask the dealership to reimburse me.

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

[ttshark]

That is an absolute joke man. Go somewhere else, get a refund.

There are two things I know of this situation, one I hear as a myth, the other I have had personal experience with.

1: Supposedly, front wheel drive cars lose alignment very easily and if not aligned by someone who know what they are doing, will just be worse than when you first started.

2: The first time you drove it, perhaps the wheel lug nuts were only hand tight causing the horrible steering. I had this problem once. Drove off and the mechanic forgot to tighten the right wheel. Was held on so loosely that I can't believe it didn't fall off.

[jd42]

QUOTE (cooldj @ Oct 21 2009, 11:15 PM)

Bring the car back at the dealership, come back to get it, they say that they "rotated" the tires. Went and check the car, they placed the right tire to the left of the car and vice versa, although they are unidirectional tires!!! (oh, we didn't know they were unidirectional....)[/b]

Wow, they are just complete idiots there. The steering wheel not being centered has nothing to due with the tires in this case. The problem is that the dummy performing the alignment doesn't know to center the steering wheel while adjusting front toe.

The fact that they mounted directional tires the wrong way further illustrates what complete knuckleheads they are. Complain to the manager, and then find a different dealership FAST! This wonderfully demonstrates why the dealership is not always the "best" place to bring your car for service. Some dealerships have pretty good people, but others employ stupid flunkies who you do not want touching your car.

Getting an alignment done properly can be a real pain, which is why I've learned to do my own.

[cooldj]

QUOTE (jd42 @ Oct 22 2009, 08:55 AM)

Wow, they are just complete idiots there. The steering wheel not being centered has nothing to due with the tires in this case. The problem is that the dummy performing the alignment doesn't know to center the steering wheel while adjusting front toe.

The fact that they mounted directional tires the wrong way further illustrates what complete knuckleheads they are. Complain to the manager, and then find a different dealership FAST! This wonderfully demonstrates why the dealership is not always the "best" place to bring your car for service. Some dealerships have pretty good people, but others employ stupid flunkies who you do not want touching your car.

Getting an alignment done properly can be a real pain, which is why I've learned to do my own.[/b]

Thank you for your input. I thought they were having brain cramps.

I assumed he wasn't doing the steering wheel adjustment properly, but I'm not really familiar with the procedure. Do you know a good write up on what they have to do? maybe that would help me understand.

Cheers.

QUOTE (ttshark @ Oct 22 2009, 01:33 AM)

That is an absolute joke man. Go somewhere else, get a refund.

There are two things I know of this situation, one I hear as a myth, the other I have had personal experience with.

1: Supposedly, front wheel drive cars lose alignment very easily and if not aligned by someone who know what they are doing, will just be worse than when you first started.

2: The first time you drove it, perhaps the wheel lug nuts were only hand tight causing the horrible steering. I had this problem once. Drove off and the mechanic forgot to tighten the right wheel. Was held on so loosely that I can't believe it didn't fall off.[/b]

i think this guy didn't know what he was doing. What pisses me off is that they could have asked a different mechanic to give it a try, not the same guy 3 X.
Anyway, time to have a chat with their manager (especially since they brag about client satisfaction lol)

[jd42]

QUOTE (cooldj @ Oct 23 2009, 07:45 AM)

I assumed he wasn't doing the steering wheel adjustment properly, but I'm not really familiar with the procedure. Do you know a good write up on what they have to do? maybe that would help me understand.[/b]

Front toe is adjusted by lengthening or shortening the tie-rods on each side of the car. The tie-rods have a threaded section that screws into the tie-rod ends and turns each wheel in or out a small amount without moving the steering rack.

When adjusting toe, the goal is usually something near 0, which means the wheels are exactly parallel to each other. (There are reasons to sometimes choose toe values not quite equal to zero, but the target values are usually pretty close.) If the steering wheel isn't centered when toe is set, the wheels may be straight to the car, but you get a crooked steering wheel driving down the road.

The proper way to set front toe is to center the steering wheel and hold it in place with something. Alignment shops have adjustable gadgets that clamp the wheel to the seat or floor. Then, set the toe angles for each wheel. Now, the wheels will be parallel and straight at the same time the steering wheel is centered.

[cooldj]

QUOTE (jd42 @ Oct 23 2009, 01:18 PM)

Front toe is adjusted by lengthening or shortening the tie-rods on each side of the car. The tie-rods have a threaded section that screws into the tie-rod ends and turns each wheel in or out a small amount without moving the steering rack.

When adjusting toe, the goal is usually something near 0, which means the wheels are exactly parallel to each other. (There are reasons to sometimes choose toe values not quite equal to zero, but the target values are usually pretty close.) If the steering wheel isn't centered when toe is set, the wheels may be straight to the car, but you get a crooked steering wheel driving down the road.

The proper way to set front toe is to center the steering wheel and hold it in place with something. Alignment shops have adjustable gadgets that clamp the wheel to the seat or floor. Then, set the toe angles for each wheel. Now, the wheels will be parallel and straight at the same time the steering wheel is centered.[/b]

Ah ha! That makes more sense. I asked them to give me the report from the alignment machine and it showed that the first time they did it, the "steer ahead" was 0.06 degrees, outside it's +/- 0.05 degrees range. The second time they did it the error, the steer ahead is 0 degrees. Total toe is 0.17 degrees. All the values (camber, toe, caster) for all the wheels is within specs.

So that would make sense, you're right, it must be the thing they use to hold the steering wheel that was not set up properly.

Thanks!

[jd42]

QUOTE (cooldj @ Oct 29 2009, 11:11 PM)

So that would make sense, you're right, it must be the thing they use to hold the steering wheel that was not set up properly.[/b]

There is another possibility I thought of. Since the factory spec for toe is so wide, you could have a significant imbalance in individual toe on the front wheels which might lead to an out-of-center steering wheel. The specs allow for up to about 0.25 degrees of individual toe-in on a side. If one side is somewhere close to that, and the other side is closer to zero toe, you would notice the difference in the steering wheel while still being "in spec".

What are the individual toe values from the alignment sheet? Total toe of 0.17 degrees isn't terrible, but if the individual angles are something like -0.07 and 0.24, that could be the explanation.

I've given up on trying to find someone to perform an alignment correctly. Most places will happily send you on your way as long as all the boxes on the computer turn to green. My old-fashioned approach with strings, rulers, a few home-made tools, and some trigonometry takes the better part of a day, but the results are much more rewarding.

[cooldj]

QUOTE (jd42 @ Oct 29 2009, 11:55 PM)

There is another possibility I thought of. Since the factory spec for toe is so wide, you could have a significant imbalance in individual toe on the front wheels which might lead to an out-of-center steering wheel. The specs allow for up to about 0.25 degrees of individual toe-in on a side. If one side is somewhere close to that, and the other side is closer to zero toe, you would notice the difference in the steering wheel while still being "in spec".

What are the individual toe values from the alignment sheet? Total toe of 0.17 degrees isn't terrible, but if the individual angles are something like -0.07 and 0.24, that could be the explanation.

I've given up on trying to find someone to perform an alignment correctly. Most places will happily send you on your way as long as all the boxes on the computer turn to green. My old-fashioned approach with strings, rulers, a few home-made tools, and some trigonometry takes the better part of a day, but the results are much more rewarding.[/b]

Hi

I just got home from a business trip. that's an interesting idea, I will try to scan the sheet they gave me. Definitively, alignemnt seems to be the most underestimated repair on the car. They don't even have two techs that know how to operate the machine.

Thanks.

[marinejonny19]

Yea I hate having to get my alignment done. As I type this right now actually I am sittin in a McDonalds waitin for my shop to call and tell me my cars alignment is done. And yea this is the 3rd time i have had it in there because they keep sending me away wit a crooked steering wheel or a slight pull to the right or left.

One of the mechanics even had the nerve to say to me "look its not pulling either way, the only thing thats wrong is that the steering wheel is in a crooked position. Thats fine isnt it" I almost literally ripped his head off.

good luck wit yours man