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Old 10-31-2011, 01:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Getting Desperate here. 06 MS6, Rebuilt engine...no power. out of time?

I'm back again. Doubt anyone will remember this thread:New Member. Major problem w/ 06 MS6

Well after a nightmare of dealing with a reputable used engine wholesaler, we have a fully rebuilt short block in the car.

I desperately need some help/advice. The car idles its a touch rough... kinda a pfffft, pfffft, pffft... You can feel it more at the exhaust than you can hear it.

No CEL. Seams to be running a little rich too.

Problem is: It has almost 0 power. I mean 0 its all it can do to rev up to 3k. once it gets there is smooths out and a little power comes back. It cant even make it up the street. It doesn't miss, stumble or surge. It just has no power.

First question:
I'm guessing at this point that the timing is off. The rebuilder assured us that timing would be done...We paid a pretty penny to know that the engine would be basically be ready to drop in.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here? What else should I be looking at. I did not do the work. A buddys dad swapped in and out (good mechanic) He believes its timing related too. But admits he is not sure.

Second question:
He is going to look into the timing Monday. I've read that it requires several special tools. Is there a good write up on this? Or does anyone have the "setting timing" out the manual? Would it be the same as a Fusion? OR? OR? Just trying to make it easy on him because I think he is a bit intimated.


I mentioned this has cost a pretty penny. We are tapped out at this point. We desperately need the car back on the road to trade in. We have a trade it basically done but need the car to complete it.


I would be indebted to anyone who can help us out with info, advice, anything! Are there any reputable shops/members in socal that might be willing to offer some advice or anything at all?G
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Another thing that potentially could be an issue is the camshaft position sensor and/or the crankshaft position sensor. I would assume that if either one of these sensors was failing this badly or was left unconnected, that there would be a CEL but just in case, I would check both of those. I had a camposition sensor start to fail recently and it only set a CEL when it failed completely. Replaced it and the problem was solved. Obviously those two sensors are very crucial in that they determine the position of the cam/crank and thus are integrated into timing logic. Obviously there is more to timing than just the valves. The ECU needs to know when to fire the injectors and also the spark as well.

Other than these two sensors, I would suspect other damaged/unplugged sensors from the engine swap. These kinds of things happen and there are so many small things that can really cripple the way this engine runs. Let us know on the valve train timing. It's difficult to say without some more info at this point.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Full FSM. use the 2.3L NA timing directions

MAZDA 6 FULL WORKSHOP MANUAL!!!!!!


DISI timing tools

Shop Tools // SURE Motorsports // Mazda Performance Equipment

as for the cause, it sounds like a timing issue, but w/o knowing more(or a video would help), it is purely a guessing game on our parts.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by flipper66 View Post
Full FSM. use the 2.3L NA timing directions

MAZDA 6 FULL WORKSHOP MANUAL!!!!!!


DISI timing tools

Shop Tools // SURE Motorsports // Mazda Performance Equipment

as for the cause, it sounds like a timing issue, but w/o knowing more(or a video would help), it is purely a guessing game on our parts.

Thanks for the links. (the shop manual doesnt seem to want to open.)

Yeah its hard to diagnose over the internet. I took some video with my phone but its too slight to notice. Like I said you can feel it way more than you can hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mczimer View Post
Another thing that potentially could be an issue is the camshaft position sensor and/or the crankshaft position sensor. I would assume that if either one of these sensors was failing this badly or was left unconnected, that there would be a CEL but just in case, I would check both of those. I had a camposition sensor start to fail recently and it only set a CEL when it failed completely. Replaced it and the problem was solved. Obviously those two sensors are very crucial in that they determine the position of the cam/crank and thus are integrated into timing logic. Obviously there is more to timing than just the valves. The ECU needs to know when to fire the injectors and also the spark as well.

Other than these two sensors, I would suspect other damaged/unplugged sensors from the engine swap. These kinds of things happen and there are so many small things that can really cripple the way this engine runs. Let us know on the valve train timing. It's difficult to say without some more info at this point.

I would think that a damaged sensor would most likely throw a CEL?? It just doesn't feel like that. The more I think about it...I got to think its a timing issue. Its as if the car thinks everything is ok. But it obviously not.




My mechanic has done timing on a 2.3l Fusion. Is it the same tools/Job?
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just realizing that the shop manual pdf cannot be printed. Is there a printable one out there?
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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One way you can get around something not being printable, especially if it's just a few pages, is to do a screenshot and then print that. Control + Print Screen takes a screen shot that you can paste (control + V) inside Microsoft Paint. Just save that screenshot as an image. Also, the software called "Snag It", which has a free downloadable version, allows you to capture data from a screen in various ways. I hope that helps a little!

http://www.techsmith.com/download/snagit/
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mczimer View Post
One way you can get around something not being printable, especially if it's just a few pages, is to do a screenshot and then print that. Control + Print Screen takes a screen shot that you can paste (control + V) inside Microsoft Paint. Just save that screenshot as an image. Also, the software called "Snag It", which has a free downloadable version, allows you to capture data from a screen in various ways. I hope that helps a little!

Download Snagit

Yeah I did that. Thank you...Ended up not needing it. My mechanic did this all as a side job. I found out about lunch time. That he would not be able to even touch the car until wed night. We simply don't have the time to wait for him...Even if he gets to it...I know its going to be a pain for him to source the correct tools....

I had the car picked up and dropped off at Romero Mazda in Ontario Ca. They are charging us $125 to check it out. I am pretty sure this will turn into headache #752094385028 on this car. I'm praying that its something simple... Or at very least just the timing. A $400 job. I know deep down it will be more.

I'm just out of option and time as of now.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASbabyVEGAS View Post
Yeah I did that. Thank you...Ended up not needing it. My mechanic did this all as a side job. I found out about lunch time. That he would not be able to even touch the car until wed night. We simply don't have the time to wait for him...Even if he gets to it...I know its going to be a pain for him to source the correct tools....

I had the car picked up and dropped off at Romero Mazda in Ontario Ca. They are charging us $125 to check it out. I am pretty sure this will turn into headache #752094385028 on this car. I'm praying that its something simple... Or at very least just the timing. A $400 job. I know deep down it will be more.

I'm just out of option and time as of now.
Keep us posted, at least if it isn't the valve timing, maybe with some more information we can help you narrow it down and pinpoint the issue. I've been through an engine build/replacement myself and have had my speed 6 for 157,000 miles so I definitely have some experience to offer.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mczimer View Post
Keep us posted, at least if it isn't the valve timing, maybe with some more information we can help you narrow it down and pinpoint the issue. I've been through an engine build/replacement myself and have had my speed 6 for 157,000 miles so I definitely have some experience to offer.
how many miles did u get on the stock motor ?
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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how many miles did u get on the stock motor ?
109,000 miles. A rod came apart at 60 mph while leisurely crusing down the road. I remember at the time I was actually off the gas and coasting. So apparently there was a fracture of some kind that just reached the point at which it let go.
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