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-   Speed6 Engine/Drivetrain (http://forum.mazda6club.com/242-speed6-engine-drivetrain/)
-   -   race prep OEM / MZR intake manifold (http://forum.mazda6club.com/speed6-engine-drivetrain/202794-race-prep-oem-mzr-intake-manifold.html)

mbjel 12-28-2007 02:53 AM

Quote:

sorry for ruffling feathers .... but

the above quote is what I spoke of. Crankcase air from the pcv valve, under manifold vacuum conditions, goes directly to the intake manifold, and does not pass through the intercooler. That quote is not talking about the pcv valve path, but the intake tract ... pipe/hose exiting the MAF, the IC, TB, and intake manifold.

your pcv path catch can may work, I don't mind being proven wrong ... a few times.[/b]
Well I have a Carbing catch can and it might actually get installed now!

whooosh 12-28-2007 06:58 AM

Quote:

sorry for ruffling feathers .... but

Crankcase air from the pcv valve, under manifold vacuum conditions, goes directly to the intake manifold, and does not pass through the intercooler. That quote is not talking about the pcv valve path, but the intake tract ... pipe/hose exiting the MAF, the IC, TB, and intake manifold.

your pcv path catch can may work, I don't mind being proven wrong ... a few times.[/b]
trust me you didn't ruffle anything
I thought you would be pick up why I posted the "borrowed info"
it was for the sake of this comment:
The added oil within the intake system can lower the octane rating of your fuel and create a carbon, oil sludge build-up in your intake system.
specifically the intake manifold and intake valves in the case of the MZR - there are many PCV configurations...
obviously this "borrowed info" is a generalization as is your auto text 101

KevinK2 12-28-2007 10:38 PM

Quote:

obviously this "borrowed info" is a generalization as is your auto text 101[/b]
where is that?

Quakeguy 12-29-2007 05:54 PM

I think the way Woosh is putting it should work just fine. He seems to be trying to install it the way the engine was designed to have it, except perhaps better than factory.

I never understood the logic in putting a catch can between the valve cover and the intake. Unless you have something like a valve spring cooling system that uses oil sprayers, I don't see how you could possibly have enough oil vapor inside the valve cover to make it worth while to seperate it out. There just isnt that much oil up there, and for the most part it isn't airborne.

The whole point of the PCV system is to vent out any fuel vapor that may get past the rings so that it doesnt detonate in the crankcase, and to keep the crankcase pressures such that it won't blow any seals. If we are pulling enough air out of the valve cover as to vacuum out the oil then our PCV system is really overkill.

A 5/8ths line on a PCV system is overkill imo, 3/8ths is all that any street car should ever need.

A 5/8ths crankcase vent line is something that you might use on a nitrous mountain motor that vents to the exhaust manifold.

whooosh 12-29-2007 09:41 PM

Quote:

I think the way Woosh is putting it should work just fine. He seems to be trying to install it the way the engine was designed to have it, except perhaps better than factory.

I never understood the logic in putting a catch can between the valve cover and the intake. Unless you have something like a valve spring cooling system that uses oil sprayers, I don't see how you could possibly have enough oil vapor inside the valve cover to make it worth while to seperate it out. There just isnt that much oil up there, and for the most part it isn't airborne.

The whole point of the PCV system is to vent out any fuel vapor that may get past the rings so that it doesnt detonate in the crankcase, and to keep the crankcase pressures such that it won't blow any seals. If we are pulling enough air out of the valve cover as to vacuum out the oil then our PCV system is really overkill.

A 5/8ths line on a PCV system is overkill imo, 3/8ths is all that any street car should ever need.

A 5/8ths crankcase vent line is something that you might use on a nitrous mountain motor that vents to the exhaust manifold.[/b]
the only reason I'm using a 15mm(approx 5/8) hose is because the hose from the OEM PCV to the intake manifold is exactly 15mm :yesnod:

ghettospeed 12-31-2007 01:33 AM

Quote:

I think the way Woosh is putting it should work just fine. He seems to be trying to install it the way the engine was designed to have it, except perhaps better than factory.

I never understood the logic in putting a catch can between the valve cover and the intake. Unless you have something like a valve spring cooling system that uses oil sprayers, I don't see how you could possibly have enough oil vapor inside the valve cover to make it worth while to seperate it out. There just isnt that much oil up there, and for the most part it isn't airborne.

The whole point of the PCV system is to vent out any fuel vapor that may get past the rings so that it doesnt detonate in the crankcase, and to keep the crankcase pressures such that it won't blow any seals. If we are pulling enough air out of the valve cover as to vacuum out the oil then our PCV system is really overkill.[/b]
Well, if you are running over 5k rpms, there is PLENTY of oil flinging around in the crankcase and heads. Lets not forget that the crank flinging oil around causes vapor that can just as easily end up in the VCs as it can anywhere else. Esp. since at rpms the crankcase generates pressure waves that shoot oil vapor up into the VC. The crank and the pistons moving down moves huge amounts of air, which pushes the vapor into the heads.

Oil knock is NO JOKE. Believe me when I say this, it is destructive. There are plenty of Corvette motors with this problem, so much so they actually sell a catchcan system that ususually leads to a recouping of up to 20whp on Vettes.

KevinK2 12-31-2007 02:23 AM

Quote:

... I never understood the logic in putting a catch can between the valve cover and the intake. Unless you have something like a valve spring cooling system that uses oil sprayers, I don't see how you could possibly have enough oil vapor inside the valve cover to make it worth while to seperate it out. There just isnt that much oil up there, and for the most part it isn't airborne.[/b]
try running the engine with VC off a few minutes, and you will see oil sraying all over. for a mini test, leave oil cap off and rev engine a few times.


question ... when does most ring blow-by gases occur, at idle or at wot and 15+ psi boost over 4 k rpm?, as implied in woosh's quote.

my opinion is the latter, and under boost pcv has no flow, and the excess by pass gas must flow through valve cover path.

intake manifold deposites will be cleaned up with egr delete, per wooshe's plan

ATE BALLER 12-31-2007 02:49 AM

Well, the only way to know is for whoosh to check his catch can a couple/few weeks after he gets everything put together.

whooosh 01-02-2008 02:35 PM

Quote:

try running the engine with VC off a few minutes, and you will see oil sraying all over. for a mini test, leave oil cap off and rev engine a few times.
question ... when does most ring blow-by gases occur, at idle or at wot and 15+ psi boost over 4 k rpm?, as implied in woosh's quote.

my opinion is the latter, and under boost pcv has no flow, and the excess by pass gas must flow through valve cover path.

intake manifold deposites will be cleaned up with egr delete, per wooshe's plan[/b]

this dicussion isn't about oil splashing - take off any valve cover and you'll have oil everywhere........OK now what????

I agree, there will be more blow by when under heavy load @ 15PSI vs at idle, cruise, and decelerting
but....
If my car has 20,000 miles...how many of the miles are under heavy load @ 15PSI ***vs.*** idle, cruise, and decelerating???
If you can figure that out, then you'll understand why the oily residue in the intake tract isn't related to WOT and engine conditions under full boost


ghettospeed 01-02-2008 05:19 PM

Lets also not forget that having a timing chain puts even more oil into the air, combine that with high pressures and you will have quite a bit of oil


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