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My list so far

7K views 36 replies 9 participants last post by  SneakyP86 
#1 · (Edited)
I still have a lot of reading still to do but that’s okay as my son made me promise not to do any of the work till he is back to in town. Since he's working out of town till sometime in august that gives me plenty of time to try to get a clue as to just what the hell I'm doing. I mean I was one the early users of the StandBack and we all know where that got me (BOOM). So here is a list of the parts I have and what intend to get, if anyone has an opinion on the parts I have or suggestions for something I don’t have on the list I would like to know your suggestion and the why behind it.

Long Block :
I was able to pick up one up with very low miles 2500 for a very good price. I intend to stick with the stock internals unless I find anything bent once I pull the head and drop the oilpan for a look see. My reasoning for this is if I build it I would much rather have a sleeved block, for now I will be more than content with around 350 on the ground HP which would be around 100 more than stock. That can be somewhat of a DD that can also double as my play pretty .

PERFORMANCE PARTS :
exhaust manifold -topmount - custom- ceramic coated

downpipe - custom - custom - non catted- ceramic coated down to the flex joint

screamer pipe - ceramic coated

Turbo - Turbonetics turbo -hotside has been ceramic coated -T3/T4 hybrid with a 50 trim .63 AR and a 57# wheel and also has ceramic ball bearings.Its water cooled and I got them to add NPT threads where the water and oil hook up that way I can go to Home depot for the connections and use high pressure hose which should make it easier to run the lines

External wastegate - Tial 38mm with a 13# spring

EBCS - Perrin 3 port (may get a different one as this one has to be spliced in)

Exhaust - Corksport cat back

FMIC - PWR core is 18 x 6 x 2 3/4 vertical veins(talked to PWR and said that core should be good for between 400 - 500 hp) not sure it will be worth the as I need to cut off the end tanks and change them around but I got for free when I bought the top mount manifold and it included piping and silicone tubing

Flywheel - Fidenza lightweight (haven't decided on a clutch yet)

SUSPENSION PARTS :

Coilovers - BC (was all there was at the time)

Swaybars - AutoExe front & rear

End links - AutoExe adjustable

MOTOR MOUNTS :
street unit - drivers and passenger side (had the front dog bone but haven't been able to find it yet)

Front motor mount - turbine tech

Diff Mounts - Turbine Tech for the front and stiffer inserts for the rear

BRAKES :

Rotora - drilled and slotted, pads - H2

GAUGES :

Wideband AFR, EGT , Oil pressure , Oil temp. , Water temp. Boost gauge (and yes I know that’s a lot, but I drive trucks for a living and am used to having a lot of info. in front of me)

MISCELANEOUS SHIT :

EGT block off plate
Windage tray (haven't decided if I'm going to do the BSD or not yet)
Apexi turbo timer (has anybody actually figured out how to get everything working if you use it yet?)

THINGS I WILL or MAYBE GETTING

Safe Seals
AP V3? (Haven't read up on it yet but in a nutshell what is the difference between V2 and V3?)
3 bar map
Have to make an intake system since I can't find one that would work with my topmount turbo
Was going to have my intake manifold PNP but they want so much to do it may get the one made made by JMF. (If you are running please let me know your impressions)
Optimized throttlebody (again if you are running one let me know your impressions)
HPFP - Had a CP-E one but I sold it, probably go with internals this time maybe the CorkSport this time (which do yall suggest)

There may be a things I haven't found yet or something I haven't about needing yet so if you think of them please feel free let me know…….. THANX
 
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#7 ·
Turbo oil return line - On the Speed6 many opt to retain the lower connection to the block as it fits behind the PTO. You can have a NPT fitting welded to the line so you still get the same result. There's only about an inch between the PTO and the block at that point on the 6, where the 3 has plenty of room to play since it's not AWD. Here's one with a -10 welded on




Perrin EBCS - There is a plug available that will make that EBCS plug-n-play- Only $8 too
Home » Shop » Connectors / Harnesses » Tyco / AMP » 2 - Way Receptacle Connector Pigtail


Wideband AFR would be a duplicate- we have one already. Which takes me to-

Cobb AP - major benefits of the v3- significantly better display with different screens and multiple monitors on screen at once, allowing you to view realtime AFR among other things. The v3 has much faster logging speed, and runs on different firmware from the v2 which means all future development will be for the v3.

Safe Seals - strongly encouraged, along with shipping the injectors off to be ultrasonically cleaned.

3 BAR MAP Sensor is a requirement for the turbo you want to run. With the stock EBCS you won't be able to run more than 20psi and leave room for the safeties to operate.

Intake- may as well just move that item up with the other turbo peripherals (mani, dp & screamer), it's another required item.

If you can afford the JMF, get the JMF. 'nough said. But, I will toss this caveat in tho- for power goals under 400, it's totally not needed, however nice it may be. Many are running to & beyond 400 on the stock IM with VTCS delete only, myself included. Let me temper this by adding in that, in my ever so humble opinion, if you're building a block, and use stock rods, you're doing it wrong. The rods are the single weakest point and will limit you to 400. You can swap rods and run stock pistons, and with your mods as planned plus a simple 5th or 6th port system for supplemental fuel, see up to 500hp easily without worrying about your rods. In short, if you're building anyway, why handicap yourself.

Throttle body- Very little material to be removed, it's a pretty thin walled part. We've not had luck finding & running a larger TB yet and AFAIK everybody who was trying has reverted to OEM.

HPFP - minimum mandatory. Autotech first, then Corksport's new internals. I'd prefer to see more time for the CS internals to verify their stability.


Windage Tray - Stock has one already and is a two part design to fit the BS assembly. You can't install an aftermarket tray without doing a BSD. If you're pulling the BS assembly for access to the rods then go ahead & get the BSD & Tray since you won't be reinstalling the BS assembly.

Turbo Timer - if your turbo of choice is both water and oil cooled the timer isn't needed. If it's oil cooled only they by all means!

EGT block off - there are two, a Primary kit that removes the EGT solenoid entirely which is a great thing and adds a ton of room back there, and a Secondary kit that just removes the tube. I encourage both and both are inexpensive.


Do you have any plans for meth or e85?

Are you comfortable working with Cobb's ATR and making the needed tuning changes for this beasty?
 
#9 ·
Turbo oil return line - On the Speed6 many opt to retain the lower connection to the block as it fits behind the PTO. You can have a NPT fitting welded to the line so you still get the same result. There's only about an inch between the PTO and the block at that point on the 6, where the 3 has plenty of room to play since it's not AWD. Here's one with a -10 welded on




That's pretty much how I was planning to do it which leads to a question. I've read that you need a restrictor on the oil feed line to the turbo do you have any recommendations or do you not think it will be a problem.

Perrin EBCS - There is a plug available that will make that EBCS plug-n-play- Only $8 too
Home » Shop » Connectors / Harnesses » Tyco / AMP » 2 - Way Receptacle Connector Pigtail

Just ordered one thanks for that


Wideband AFR would be a duplicate- we have one already. Which takes me to
You are right but that takes me to-
IMG_0002-1.jpg Photo by SneakyP86 | Photobucket


Cobb AP - major benefits of the v3- significantly better display with different screens and multiple monitors on screen at once, allowing you to view realtime AFR among other things. The v3 has much faster logging speed, and runs on different firmware from the v2 which means all future development will be for the v3

I was just wondering because you can find pretty good deals on V2's but not good enough to be worth the hassle of buying it and than having to send to COBB and get upgraded,so a new V3 it is than.

Safe Seals - strongly encouraged, along with shipping the injectors off to be ultrasonically cleaned.

I left sending the injectors to be cleaned and flow matched off the list of things still to do list I will go back and add that thanks for reminding me.

3 BAR MAP Sensor is a requirement for the turbo you want to run. With the stock EBCS you won't be able to run more than 20psi and leave room for the safeties to operate.

I see there is a 3.5 bar map sensor should I get that or is the 3 good enough?

Intake- may as well just move that item up with the other turbo peripherals (mani, dp & screamer), it's another required item.

I would but it is one of the things to still be taken care of all the things at the top i already have the things at the bottom still need to worked out or bought.

If you can afford the JMF, get the JMF. 'nough said. But, I will toss this caveat in tho- for power goals under 400, it's totally not needed, however nice it may be. Many are running to & beyond 400 on the stock IM with VTCS delete only, myself included. Let me temper this by adding in that, in my ever so humble opinion, if you're building a block, and use stock rods, you're doing it wrong. The rods are the single weakest point and will limit you to 400. You can swap rods and run stock pistons, and with your mods as planned plus a simple 5th or 6th port system for supplemental fuel, see up to 500hp easily without worrying about your rods. In short, if you're building anyway, why handicap yourself.

1) JMF manifold, the main reason I was considering it was because I dont have the tools to do a port job myself even I was able to. I didnt think it would be worth the money to buy tools I would only use once (but than again you never have enough tools do ya) I will see about doing the VTCS delete. In my defense I have to say I WAS BLINDED BY THE PRETTY.
2) Rods I have been giving this very thing some serious thought and was starting to lean this way myself. If I do this which rods would you suggest?


Throttle body- Very little material to be removed, it's a pretty thin walled part. We've not had luck finding & running a larger TB yet and AFAIK everybody who was trying has reverted to OEM.

Your right if anybody has I haven't seen or heard about it thats why I asked.

HPFP - minimum mandatory. Autotech first, then Corksport's new internals. I'd prefer to see more time for the CS internals to verify their stability.

I would love to have another CP-E pump they've just gotten so expensive. Now that im back I've been trying real hard to give myself a good swift kick in the ass for selling mine. But the guy offered more than I paid for it cause they were so hard to get back than and everyone seemed to be having troubles with just doing internals back than. Have they gotten more dependable?


Windage Tray - Stock has one already and is a two part design to fit the BS assembly. You can't install an aftermarket tray without doing a BSD. If you're pulling the BS assembly for access to the rods then go ahead & get the BSD & Tray since you won't be reinstalling the BS assembly.

Your right and if I do rods (which I probably will) the BS assembly will have to go.

Turbo Timer - if your turbo of choice is both water and oil cooled the timer isn't needed. If it's oil cooled only they by all means!

Your are again RIGHT it was just a play pretty. TAKE THIS AS A WARNING KIDS ALCOHOL LATE NIGHT ON THE INTERNET AND A CREDIT CARD DO NOT MIX!!! STEP AWAY FROM THE MONITOR. Ebay is just a listing away.

EGT block off - there are two, a Primary kit that removes the EGT solenoid entirely which is a great thing and adds a ton of room back there, and a Secondary kit that just removes the tube. I encourage both and both are inexpensive.

I will have to look into getting both I have the one that first came out will have to get the second.

Do you have any plans for meth or e85?

Been trying to find someplace local to find E85 hell if I can find someplace even kind of close I'd be willing to go fill up some 5 galuelon gas cans and bring them home and add when I go to my local station. But failing that I will be doing meth. But E85 seems like the way to go these days.

Are you comfortable working with Cobb's ATR and making the needed tuning changes for this beasty?
I think with some guidance I think I could get the hang of it the whole idea of tuning fascinates and intrigues me. I know I would Definitely need help with a base map to get it up and running. I'm dumb enough not to be scared but smart enough to know what I don't know.
 
#10 ·
Oil feed restrictor is a commonly debated topic. I usually default to no, but would heartily encourage due diligence and suggest contacting the place where you purchased the turbo, or turbonetics directly for a significantly more authoritative answer.


Can certainly find great deals on the APv2, and Cobb is still offering their trade in deal too I believe which, with careful & frugal v2 shopping, save you some money over just paying retail for a v3. Either way tho, the v3 is a significant upgrade over the v2 and very much encouraged. In the end tho, the v2 will load the same maps as the v3.


For your power goals & plans in general I'd say that a 3 BAR is good. 2.5 BAR max's around 23psi, 3 BAR around 28ish psi. Only reason you'd be looking for boost above that is if you're chasing the 500hp number...

HPFP internals are an easy hour swap, just be operating room clean. I soak em in oil while disassembling & cleaning the pump, then reassemble and reinstall- I've done 5 or 6 sets now with no failures, and as long as you're clean you should be fine! There are many videos out and other how-to's on it now. It's become such a standard thing since the gen2 speed3's need to do theirs pretty much as the first mod.


Totally LOL'd at the "ebay is just a listing away..." comment! Been there, bought that.... :D


E85 is totally the way to go if it's available. If not tho meth will get you the same numbers, and can even act as supplemental fueling to a degree. Our injectors are topping out around the 400-425 hp window and if running e85 you'll be on the lower end of that curve. For me it was either 409 or 433 hp depending on the correction factor used, and even that was only after dropping back from 5 gallons to 4 gallons of e85 per tankful (e33 down to e30). The Injector Duty Cycle data will tell you where you are, and we can, usually, just touch 110% before the lack of fuel cough begins.

So, if you can find it, start with e85. You can always add meth later if needed. If no e85, get a meth kit with a progressive controller. Even then you can always tune till you find KR on just pump gas and see where you get. Depending on the turbo you can see 325-350 on just pump.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Oil feed restrictor is a commonly debated topic. I usually default to no, but would heartily encourage due diligence and suggest contacting the place where you purchased the turbo, or turbonetics directly for a significantly more authoritative answer.

Talked to Turbonetics today and they said I should be okay and not to use any type of restriction unless the turbo starts to smoke. On a side note I was digging through the box that the ex manifold and the intercooler pipes for it came in and I believe I found the oil lines that they had fabricated for it.





Can certainly find great deals on the APv2, and Cobb is still offering their trade in deal too I believe which, with careful & frugal v2 shopping, save you some money over just paying retail for a v3. Either way tho, the v3 is a significant upgrade over the v2 and very much encouraged. In the end tho, the v2 will load the same maps as the v3.

All the deals I've found so far the price their selling for + the upgrade price from COBB is more than just buying a new one.


For your power goals & plans in general I'd say that a 3 BAR is good. 2.5 BAR max's around 23psi, 3 BAR around 28ish psi. Only reason you'd be looking for boost above that is if you're chasing the 500hp number...

Not planning to get anywhere near that number.If anything I plan on being on conservative side of safe. When you look at my parts you might have trouble believing that but its true. Let me put it this way say im going to buy a lawnmower, I see one that will work and meets my needs but theres another one next to it thats much heavier duty and exceeds my needs. I will normally buy that because I know that no matter what I throw at it, it should be able to take it and keep smiling.

HPFP internals are an easy hour swap, just be operating room clean. I soak em in oil while disassembling & cleaning the pump, then reassemble and reinstall- I've done 5 or 6 sets now with no failures, and as long as you're clean you should be fine! There are many videos out and other how-to's on it now. It's become such a standard thing since the gen2 speed3's need to do theirs pretty much as the first mod.

I will be going with the Autotech internals I heard a rumor at MSF that there was a problem the CS internals. Could all be just a rumor but its not worth the risk. I thought about it I'm 99% sure I will do forged rods just have to figure out which ones.


Totally LOL'd at the "ebay is just a listing away..." comment! Been there, bought that.... :D


E85 is totally the way to go if it's available. If not tho meth will get you the same numbers, and can even act as supplemental fueling to a degree. Our injectors are topping out around the 400-425 hp window and if running e85 you'll be on the lower end of that curve. For me it was either 409 or 433 hp depending on the correction factor used, and even that was only after dropping back from 5 gallons to 4 gallons of e85 per tankful (e33 down to e30). The Injector Duty Cycle data will tell you where you are, and we can, usually, just touch 110% before the lack of fuel cough begins.

So, if you can find it, start with e85. You can always add meth later if needed. If no e85, get a meth kit with a progressive controller. Even then you can always tune till you find KR on just pump gas and see where you get. Depending on the turbo you can see 325-350 on just pump.
Still working on that found a couple sites that "supposedly" locate stations have E85 and the closest one is like 40 miles away but who knows how up to date that is. Might try calling a couple car dealers that sell flex fuel cars and see if there are any closer. If they want to sell the car they should know.
 
#15 ·
Found a station somewhat close that sells E85 so I think I will be giving this a try. I am curious among the people running E85 what difference have noticed in fuel mileage?

With stuff Im doing to the car it doesn't really matter but I am curious.

Looking to find a 3" 0r 3.25" maf housing and the piping to do my inlet pipe.

Ordered my 3 bar map housing and harness to day.

And still doing a lot of reading about to start reading up using the AP for tuning.

WISH ME LUCK WITH THAT AS I CAN BE A LITTLE DENSE WHEN IT COMES READING TECHNICAL STUFF.

I JUST REALIZED THE OTHER DAY, I'VE BEEN PLAYING DUMB SO LONG ITS NOT A GAME ANYMORE !!! :wacko:
 
#16 ·
I drive pretty aggresively, and see ~19 mpg on e85, just over that on pure 93. That is, I can see ~250 miles on e85, and, if I'm really really good, maybe about 290 on pure 93.

In the actual doing tho, I drive like a fool all the time, and anytime I get 250 or better on a tank I'm happy. If I needed more I'd get a different daily driver.... :D

Just me tho. I'm more interested in Smiles per gallon....


.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Okay I've started to whittle some of my choices on the parts still left acquire but still don't have yet. If you have any opinions on my choices I'd really like hear them. I haven't ordered them yet as I want to what of this I can pick up on the cheap.

Oil Catch Can
Oil Catch Can Kit: 06-07 Mazdaspeed 6 | Damond Motorsports

Fuel Pump Internals
CORKSPORT MZR DISI MAX Flow Fuel Pump Internals | CorkSport Mazdaspeed HPFP
Leaning the autotech
Autotech High Volume Fuel Pump Upgrade Kit for Mazdaspeed 3 / 6 / CX-7 #10-127-100K - Revolution Performance Motorsports!

Rods
K1 Forged Connecting Rods for Mazda MZR 2.3 DISI Turbo #028CF19151 - Revolution Performance Motorsports!

Mazda MZR 2.3 DISI Rods | cp-e?

Intake
Mazda MZR 2.3 DISI XcelXL? Air Intake | cp-e?
 
#18 ·
With my list of mods I was wondering if anybody could advise me on what CELS I can expect to throw when I get my car back up and running. They do emissions testing here.

I know I can expect to throw one for my non catted downpipe. If my reading is right the AP will clear the light but when they it up to the OBD II it will come up as not ready to read or something like that. So once I'm positive it fits I plan to to a cat in that I bolt in, than have a test pipe made for that also bolts in so when its close to inspection time I can switch them out get inspected than switch back again.

So if you know of any CELS I can expect to throw and the work arounds please let know.
 
#20 ·
With my list of mods I was wondering if anybody could advise me on what CELS I can expect to throw when I get my car back up and running. They do emissions testing here.

I know I can expect to throw one for my non catted downpipe. If my reading is right the AP will clear the light but when they it up to the OBD II it will come up as not ready to read or something like that. So once I'm positive it fits I plan to to a cat in that I bolt in, than have a test pipe made for that also bolts in so when its close to inspection time I can switch them out get inspected than switch back again.

So if you know of any CELS I can expect to throw and the work arounds please let know.
Depending on your state laws youre allowed to have up to a certain amount of not-ready codes. In VA it is 2 I believe. So as long as you don't have more than 2 (or whatever number your state allows) codes disabled, you will pass the test. Also depends if they do the sniff test...again, in VA they only check your OBD2 and do a visual inspection, no sniff test. Check your state laws.
 
#19 ·
Update of parts ordered so far:

COBB AccessPort V3
Autotech High Volume Fuel Pump Upgrade Kit
Damond Motorsports OCC kit with VTA option
Damond Motorsports block off kit
2 - Way Receptacle Connector Pigtail - to make EBCS plug n play (thanx TI for the link)
Bosch 3 Bar TMap Map Sensor with IAT
Mazdaspeed Map Harness (again thanx to TI for the link)
 
#21 ·
Two most common are for the VCTS delete and no cats. Both can be disabled in ATR, but both can be handled mechanically as well.

You can use a stand off for the secondary O2 sensor to pull the sensor out of the exhaust stream a bit so it won't throw a code.

As long as you leave the VCTS vac box & solenoid connected & working the ECU will think the system is in place. You'll still have all that ugly stuff hanging on your IM, but no codes to deal with in trade.
 
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#22 ·
Oh yeah thanks, I forgot about the o2 simulator trick too.
 
#24 ·
Yup- totally works too.

Things are sooo much simpler down here in FL- where if it rolls then it's legal... :D
 
#27 ·
If you haven't yet, be sure to hit the Cobb website and request your copy of ATR
 
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#29 ·
Well thought I would post some pics of the turbo setup that I will be using on the car. I had this setup from before I went BOOM before and tried to sell it when I first did. I wanted to sell it as complete setup becsuse I really wanted to see what it would do as envisioned so I wasn't prepared to split up. I was surprised that it didn't sell as there were only a very few topmount setups at the time.

















and my other love

 
#30 ·
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#31 ·
I just bought a VVT replacement kit from a member of another forum, its brand new OEM parts. I was reading that the DCR VVT is an upgrade so I called and talked to them. So if I tear down both motors I will have 2 used ones, that will cover the core charge for the DCR VVT plus they buy the the other one (for $35) plus I will a brand new OEM one that I can sell plus a brand new OEM timing chain (came with the VVT replacement kit I bought). So if I buy the DCR VVT I could possiby cone out to the good on the deal.

My question is this, Is the DCR VVT really an upgrade over a brand new OEM part?

Also What specialty tools do I need to get for the build ?

And assuming the block and crank both look good (eye balling them) what work would you recommend havjng done by a machine shop?
 
#32 ·
The new OEM VVT is heat treated at the weak spot to prevent the pin breaking out. I've not heard of a new unit failing like the originals did. That said, the DCR unit is an upgraded pin retaining design that uses a threaded plug and in theory should be impossible to fail. All that considered then, is the DCR a better design? Yep. Is it needed or worth it? Totally up to you. In my opinion you can't really go wrong either way.


As for what to dole out to the shop, the answer is, really, it depends. Start with a combo of your budget and how much you trust the shop. Head work, cylinder honing, speccing the bearings, ordering parts to match, assembling & balancing- the list can go on. Or you can pull the rods, drop in new bearings & stock numbers rods & hope for the best.... (drop-in rebuild). Personally, if you trust the shop, I'd drop the engine with em along with the rebuild shop manual so they have specs & such readily at hand, then ask them what they think. A good shop will tear it down, look it over & let you know and discuss options. A bad shop will just ask for 5 or 6 grand and a month....
 
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#33 · (Edited)
I just found a picture of the car that had the exhaust manifold that I have now. I just and it looks like he was trying to go blow through long before there was any real tuning available to do it. That must have been 6-7 years ago, no wonder he couldnt get the car to run right back than. I wonder if he was the first to try it? What do yall think about going blow through?

 
#34 · (Edited)
@Seigisama did it, among a few other on msf.


Not tuned properly would explain it running poorly.
 
#35 · (Edited)
s I think I have decided on the last of my purchases .

I have boxed up my spare IM and VC to send them to RELENTLESS to get PNP'd and powdercoated.

I'm gonna get this rebuild kit.
Stage 1 MZR Motor Build Kit MS3/MS6 2006-2013

ARP Head Stud Kit MS3 MS6 MZR

ARP Main Stud Kit MS3 MS6 MZR

http://www.edgeautosport.com/manufacturers/k1/k1-connecting-
rods-mazdaspeed-3-mazdaspeed-6-2-3l/

I'm thinking of going blow through and am thinking of going with this
Treadstone Performance TR1035 Intercooler 30"x10 5"x3 5" 666HP | eBay

3" Intercooler Piping Kit 9pcs Free U Pipe GT GTS AE86 | eBay

I still have to pull the injectors and send them off to injectorRX to let them work their magic. I know there will be some incidentals to pop up like vacuum hoses, wire and such but I hope I've got the majority of it covered.

I can't decide if these are worth it or not, what do yall think?

JBR James Barone Racing Intake Manifold Thermal Insulating Gasket TIG Mazdaspeed 3 6 MS3 MS6

JBR James Barone Racing Throttle Body Thermal Insulating Gasket TIG Mazdaspeed 3 6 MS3 MS6

I also need to pick up the timing tools ( anybody know where to get them at a fair price and does the crank stop come with it?) Somebody also mentioned something about it would would be a good idea to have a clutch stop (I think thats what he called it) when torquing the crank down, (is it necessary or a good idea?) if so where can I find that?
 
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