Mazda 6 Forums banner

TiGray does a virgin

18K views 127 replies 24 participants last post by  TiGraySpeed6 
#1 ·
The longest forged drop in build ever, and it starts like this-

After assisting my #1 piston to part ways with the rod, and destroying the block with no small amount of authority in the process, the time has come to drop a new mill in there.

I don't want to spend a ton of time & $$ on machine shop labor to bring back a used block that might have issues of it's own, so I'm sourcing a virgin long block from MSM. Along with all the tidbits & what-nots listed below, the total price tag should work out to just over $5K by the time she's back on the road again.

The time line is, give or take, get the engine in over the next month, run it on the stock bottom end as the last few loan payments are made and then the credit cards are paid off from this initial spend, then bank the car payment funds till ~2K is put away. That 2K is to forge the bottom end and all the stuff needed to make that happen

So, that should give me an engine with ~15K miles on it, nicely broken in and stable, a perfect home for a drop in forged build. Broken in but not all clapped out & screwed up.


Where am I at now? So far I've orders are placed for:
SCCA membership purchased
when SCCA card shows up I can join MSM & purchase the long block

JBR 80a Trilogy purchased so the shiny newness has a snug & comfy home

CPe Rear diff mount (yes, it's the wrong end of the car, but mounts :) )
CPe Safe Seals

Luk 10-064 clutch from ebay
Fidenza fw from MAPerformance


I need to pull the injectors and send them off to InjectorRX to be cleaned & tested.
- I'm hoping the #1 injector didn't get trashed, but if it did I'll get a new one and send it with the others so I can be sure they are all flowing evenly.
- I probably will get all new o-rings & such for the injectors since the current set has 75K miles on em.

I need to pick up an engine hoist & stand

I need to PNP my intake mani, then clean it up & probably paint it. Will most likely paint the VC too, but not till the new engine comes in so I can compare the two.

I'm debating if I'm going to do the BSD right away or not. Need to recover the BSD from the old block first.



Fun stuff- At some point I'm going to tear down the old engine. Since #1 went, that means I've got a tired old worn out #3 to look at... I wonder what kind of shape that piston is in, if there are cracked ring lands or how the ring ends look....



New engine break in will most likely mimic phate's process over on MSF- that seems to have generated great results. I'm also going to blackstone the oil & see how the virgin mill evolves.



Lots of pics as stuff arrives and things progress.....
 
See less See more
#60 ·
I took the day off Friday & that was when I did the clutch/flywheel, then mated the trans & PTO and put the engine in the car. From then to driving it today I haven't taken any pics unfortunately. Just been too damn hot to do anything but progress forward till I caught myself starting to screw something up- then I knew it was time to stop for a while.

It really has been like working in a damn swimming pool. Heat index has been in the 107+ range the whole time...

Just got back from getting the AC system serviced, and am up to ~30 miles now :)
 
#64 ·
I used CPE SafeSeals, and they come with studs/washers/nuts now which is really handy :)

The v3 is sweeeet :thumbup:
a very good upgrade of a very good product
 
#67 ·
Not planning on a 5th port at the moment, it would come after the bottom end is built tho since it's not really needed till over 400 anyway.

I've not run meth, but I debate getting a kit occasionally, so it could happen...
 
#68 ·
I spent most of this weekend under the car-
Installed rear diff mounts and a rear sway bar & new end links. Also changed the rear diff fluid while I was there.
Then fixed an exhaust leak where the down pipe joins the rest of the exhaust.
Then moved to the front and changed the PTO fluid,
drained the water out of the radiator and put in a 30% blend of coolant to water (only had water when the engine went in),
and did the first oil change on the new engine now that I've got 200 miles on it.

I'll change it again somewhere around 500-1000 then on to normal 3-4K mile changes after that.

I also went through everything checking that all the bolts were still nice & tight now that they've had several heat cycles.

The engine & new clutch feels great. It's been killing me to keep my foot out of it. I wanted to put 4-500 miles on the engine & clutch before really wailing on it, but damn it's hard not to. It feels strong and I haven't even seen more than ~7-8 psi of boost yet
 
#70 ·
lolz- to me it felt like it took f o r e v e r! Especially with just dropping in a fresh long block rather than building one.

BTW, Thanks Chris for the fantastic how-to on installing the diff mounts! Right on the money to be sure. Tell ya what tho, if I ever have to do that job again I'm dropping the sub frame! My hands are trashed- they're just too big to fit up in there! They did, and I got it all done including the RSB, but dayum!
 
#71 ·
Ti, how much rattle/chatter does the luk/fidanza produce (low loud), and when is the noise generally heard?
I would like to know the cons of ditching the dual-mass when the time inevitably comes.
 
#72 ·
The chatter is only at idle and with the foot off the clutch. Can't really even hear it outside the car, but you can hear it from the drivers seat. Pressing the clutch pedal and it goes away.

I notice it less & less. It's rapidly becoming a no care at all thing.

I love the way it drives, even with the balance shaft still in the light fw has removed the heavy ass, driving a tank feel that the oem fw brings.... :thumbup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: myarbro1
#73 ·
Closing on 500 miles, time for an update

Short version is she appears to be running like a champ. Only issue I've seen so far is that the idle has a very slight oscillation when coasting to a stop. I'm thinking the purge valve is going, but I need to test it and perform a complete boost leak test so we'll see what's what. Fuel trims have settled really well on just a base MAF Cal, so if there's an air leak it's not much, but still annoying.

As much as I wanted to give everything a full 500 miles before putting the spurs to her, I only made it to 450 before I was starting to push it. Knowing I wouldn't hold out I set the initial tune as not only 0 WGDC, but had the boost pulled back to only 12 psi too. I can tell you that the BNR will hold 12 like a mofo, and put out 250+

In for a penny, in for 20psi, as they say, so a quick revision to chuck some timing and boost at it, and 320 is right there. Once I've completed the boost leak test & verified the purge valve I'll be making changes to the WOT MAF Cal to bring that top end down to the target, a nice gentle 11.6

I didn't put them in the same vd graph cause the 12psi boost was hidden behind the AFR's, being the same value & all.....





It's time to start refreshing the brakes for autocross, and I've got EBC Yellows, new rotors and new mounting brackets, slider pins & boots. The brackets/pins/boots all come as a single part number from Mazda, which is handy. Rotors are simple blanks this time, no slots dimples or holes. I'm going to rebuild the calipers while they're off, and then flush in some fresh fluid for the entire system, clutch & all. Still debating if I want to hunt down some Blue before it's all gone, or just run some good DOT4 & call it a day...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Final Impact
#75 ·
This engine has never seen anything but an e30 blend since it was parked with a full tank of e30.


 
  • Like
Reactions: MWSpeed6
#76 ·
Dang, so much info learned from this thread and glad everything went so smooth. Now about that drop in build/pistons/rods/etc. I'm guessing it'll pretty much work out perfectly for you being that you'll have a worn in but new engine. But just curious, what kind of machining/other work is usually necessary when upgrading rods/pistons with current block say 80,000? Trying to decide whether to upgrade or just wait till the thing blows(if its going to) and start fresh?
 
#77 ·
Really depends on the life of the engine...

It's always less expensive to start with a running engine if for no other reason than to use it as a core. Once you've ruined the block you down for the time to source a used block in acceptable condition, or the substantial cost and time to get a new block, long or short, depending on the damage.

Assuming it's voluntary, then based on your message I'd strongly encourage getting in contact with a known good source for a ready built block and trading your core for a ready to go engine. If I were to go that route, I'd be working with these guys

MZR Built Motors - SPEED PERF6RMANC3

They've developed an outstanding reputation building solid reliable engines for this platform without doing more than what you actually need for your goals.

if you're fortunate enough to have a local shop that actually has a clue, then talk to them to get an idea of what to expect. In short, if you don't have the skills & tools just bring them the block and plan on picking it up ready to go. Disassembly, cleaning decking, honing, ordering parts, gauging the bearings, head work as needed, seals & other wear items....

You can easily plan on anywhere from 3 to 5 grand depending on what you need and the parts cost. You can shave quite a bit of money by doing the work yourself, knocking it down to parts cost and some basic time at the shop for the block & head to get worked over & prepped.


Spend some time reading starting from here and the many links included-
What You Need to Know to Build a Motor - Mazdaspeed Forums
 
  • Like
Reactions: b00stedmica93
#79 ·
Update time....

~2500 miles on the new mill and it's just as happy as you would expect a Mazda assembled long block should be.

I've settled in to a sort of conservative tune. The engine has never seen anything but a 4 gallon e85 blend- it had a full tank when she blew, and I've just stayed with it. Never sees any KR over 0.75, random mech noise. Enough timing to be fun, and light on the boost has reasonable performance.








I've picked up one of the XS Performance v2 tubular exhaust manifolds that will probably get installed this weekend. Once I've got some logs to compare I suspect I'll be pulling back somewhere so that power numbers remain more or less where they are now. It's not the most efficient thing out there, so there may be little to no gains, but we shall see.





Planning on doing the first compression test while installing the manifold. I've also got a set of ITV-22's just sitting on the shelf ready to go, and depending on what the current plugs look like I may install the 22's or may continue o run the OEM plugs that were in the long block from the factory. I'm expecting the stockers to be pretty much bleach white tho, so am planning on installing the 22's...


During the break in process I ran wal-tech 5-30 oil (supertech), and changed it at 250 miles, then again at 1000 miles. That second batch with 750 miles on it got sent to Blackstone for analysis which came back with great results. The report is posted below. I'm back on Rotella T6 5-40 now, and will be sending in samples as I do changes.

Don't mind the report saying 5-40, it was 5-30

Break-in, 250-1000 miles
 
#80 ·
Conservative tune at 350hp, I want that!:D So jealous..But can't wait for your build updates. Keep em coming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TiGraySpeed6
#81 · (Edited)
Hey not to thread derail, but this is the the first place I've seen anyone mention matching injector flow rates.

I'd like to make this offer for those who have an interest; I have a flow meter capable of doing some fairly accurate testing (pretty sure its 0 - 500ccm +/-1.5% FS error good to 150 psi). Although I've never looked up the spec for rates on these injectors but basic flow testing can be done with hardware store parts. You just need a non-combustible medium to spray.

The only thing out of reach to build (beyond connecting pumps, hoses, fittings etc is a means to accurately output a given duty cycle of X...). Like say to compare 4 injectors at say 25, 50, & 75% duty cycles. 100% is 12v dc to thats easy... (on my V6 it is lol), maybe these are different?? idk
So PM me if anyone has a need. I'd guess the basic test could be done at lower pressures but I also wonder what happens at 1800 PSI.

TiGraySpeed6, thanks for sharing! PS - glad you got that whole virgin thing out of the way! :p

EDIT: fail... I messed up the math. The unit I have won't flow enough to be of any value. 500sccm = 47.60 pounds (gasoline) per hour (lb/hr / flow rate)
 
#82 ·
If I'm reading that right, you're saying you can test with pressures up to 150psi? And quantify the results accurately?

Test wise, that's all that injector rx is doing. Add in ultrasonic cleaning & before/after test results and you've got a business going....
 
#83 ·
Yes its entirely possible at home if say an injector were suspect. Like a harmonic vibration from the engine as its not producing equal power per cylinder.

An easy way to replicate a test w/out a pump per say would be to use a pressure vessel capable of meeting the test pressure (lets say 100 psi), fill it with test liquid, tap off the bottom to feed mass flow meter, to injector, into collection chamber. Tap off the top and supply regulated air at constant pressure.
All you need is fittings to connect the hardware and an air compressor and regulator set at say 50psi. For pattern check and volume check you don't even need a fancy meter. Just a good beaker and stop watch. Measure the volume over time. I'm guessing they tested only 100% duty cycle which could be as simple as supplying 12vdc to the injector. I have not read up on your model...

Setup:
Constant air pressure (say 50 psi), hardware store pressure regulator
- Feed top of tank
- - 5 gallon tank good for pressure test (100psi to be safe)
- - - tap off bottom of tank
- - - - through optional flow meter
- - - - - into injector
- - - - - - into beaker/cylinder for viewing/measuring

beaker needs a vent for vapor and to measure, you need to squeegee the droplet off the sides to the bottom if this is the measurement system. Or clean it and simply assume equal amounts went to the bottom for all tests.

Like I said up there, a basic circuit is needed if someone wants to test at conventional throttle positions which is good to know. Actually I'm kind of surprised services don't provide this option as balance at partial throttle settings (lower injector duty cycle) is important for driveablity (are all cylinders performing equally??).
Just some ideas as if you guys don't have enough to do! lol
 
#84 ·
Well, part of the issue is that, for the Speed's anyway, that we idle at 450ish psi, and WOT is in the 1600+ range stock, 17-1800+ with upgraded High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) internals.

Gotta wonder if there's really any benefit to testing at 150psi. As DI becomes more common then high psi testing will as well.

High pressure is critical for proper atomization much like diesel, but our pressures aren't nearly as high since we still get spark plugs.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top