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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gavintech View Post
$200 is less than 1% of the price of a new Mazda6. I can't imagine not wanting to spend a measly "less than 1% of the price of my car" to achieve the kind of results you think an aftermarket intake will (a 10+hp gain is more than a 5% increase in power), if I was looking for something like that.
This is not about the % of the cost of parts to the over all cost the vehicle this is about being practical. It doesn't make any sense to me to spend that much money where in the end you might get very little return from it besides a deeper sound. With my last truck I bought a generic "cai" for 50 bucks and it gave me what I wanted - a deeper sound and I did replace the exhaust system on there and I did notice some increase of mug but very little. But doing something like that to the 6 seems way to over my wallet getting a cat back or whatever. I'm a firm believer that getting a real cai is going to give back very little unless you have already spent around a grand in a new exhausted system, which is not what I'm going to do. So while I don't agree with spending $200 for a deeper sound I can stomach $50 for the sound note I want.

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:10 AM
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I'm getting tired of the constant arguments about whether or not an intake makes a difference in performance. I've been doing mostly bolt on engine work to Japanese vehicles for 25 years, when the only way to get parts was to buy a magazine, sift through it and try to find a performance shop, pick up a landline phone, and order from some alley garage in SoCal. I can tell you that an intake will make a difference, albeit small, but only if you do other mods. Slapping an intake will not give you an instant 10-15hp, I don't care what any company tells you. But change out your exhaust along with it, and you will see a difference. And the more mods you do, the more of a gain you will get. It's a small part to a big puzzle. And whether or not you gain mpg's is all about how you drive. I slapped a Honda TRX300EX Uni Pod Filter on a Geo Tracker 4x4 that I was using to deliver pizza's in back in the 90's. I saw a 3mpg increase (and a CEL).

And to further the argument that engineers design our engines to make the most power is also inaccurate. They are designed to meet a bunch of standards, and performance is only part of it. Take the Honda Accord Sport for example. Honda slaps an exhaust on it and it gains 10hp. That's it. Less restrictive muffler. And this is not speculation, this is straight from Honda.

So, yes, any mod you make to your car is going to make a difference, no matter how small. It's just whether or not it's worth it to you. I would not just do an intake if you are not going to do any other mods. $200 isn't worth it.

But if you decide to pull the trigger, ONLY use a reputable company, like CorkSport or Injen. These guys have engineered, tested, and mostly worked out all of the bugs for you. Look at the MAF issues these guys had, and now have worked out. That's why they cost what they do. You get what you pay for.

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cl335 View Post
The only thing an after market intake does is move the snorkel closer to cooler air away from the engine bay
Why? Why on earth do you assume Mazda's engineers are morons and the snorkel is already not "snorkel closer to cooler air away from the engine bay"????? Where do you people come up with such premises???
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Moose Muscles View Post
It all depends on what you value. Nobody can tell you if it is worth it or not because that defines a value for you. $200+ in disposable income is still...disposable. If the added sound makes you happy, or you enjoy a couple extra hp (or the debatable placebo effect), hell maybe you just want to purchase something to spin your wrench around a couple times on your car. Who cares, if you have the money and want to buy a part, go for it. If it seems silly then don't.
This is a highly pacifistic approach that does no one any good.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by crf50racer View Post
I'm getting tired of the constant arguments about whether or not an intake makes a difference in performance. I've been doing mostly bolt on engine work to Japanese vehicles for 25 years, when the only way to get parts was to buy a magazine, sift through it and try to find a performance shop, pick up a landline phone, and order from some alley garage in SoCal. I can tell you that an intake will make a difference, albeit small, but only if you do other mods. Slapping an intake will not give you an instant 10-15hp, I don't care what any company tells you. But change out your exhaust along with it, and you will see a difference. And the more mods you do, the more of a gain you will get. It's a small part to a big puzzle. And whether or not you gain mpg's is all about how you drive. I slapped a Honda TRX300EX Uni Pod Filter on a Geo Tracker 4x4 that I was using to deliver pizza's in back in the 90's. I saw a 3mpg increase (and a CEL).

And to further the argument that engineers design our engines to make the most power is also inaccurate. They are designed to meet a bunch of standards, and performance is only part of it. Take the Honda Accord Sport for example. Honda slaps an exhaust on it and it gains 10hp. That's it. Less restrictive muffler. And this is not speculation, this is straight from Honda.

So, yes, any mod you make to your car is going to make a difference, no matter how small. It's just whether or not it's worth it to you. I would not just do an intake if you are not going to do any other mods. $200 isn't worth it.

But if you decide to pull the trigger, ONLY use a reputable company, like CorkSport or Injen. These guys have engineered, tested, and mostly worked out all of the bugs for you. Look at the MAF issues these guys had, and now have worked out. That's why they cost what they do. You get what you pay for.
^^ an example that just because someone has an experience with something, does not mean they can separate the grain from chaff.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobouncecap View Post
This is not about the % of the cost of parts to the over all cost the vehicle this is about being practical. It doesn't make any sense to me to spend that much money where in the end you might get very little return from it besides a deeper sound. With my last truck I bought a generic "cai" for 50 bucks and it gave me what I wanted - a deeper sound and I did replace the exhaust system on there and I did notice some increase of mug but very little. But doing something like that to the 6 seems way to over my wallet getting a cat back or whatever. I'm a firm believer that getting a real cai is going to give back very little unless you have already spent around a grand in a new exhausted system, which is not what I'm going to do. So while I don't agree with spending $200 for a deeper sound I can stomach $50 for the sound note I want.
My point was that if you can afford a brand new Mazda6, $200 is nothing. Not if it is a worthy mod, but that it is very cheap and IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN AN AFTERMARKET INTAKE $200 should be nothing to someone that can buy a brand new car that costs at least int he low $20,000's to the low $30,000's. I'm not saying that you should buy one or that it is worth it.

Moving further into your logic (that I cannot understand, even a little bit) I also don't agree with spending $200 to change the sound of my car, but you're willing to pay $50 to make your car SOUND faster? Talk about throwing money away! I wouldn't spend $20 for that.

Not to mention the $50 generic intake has a very real chance of taking away some of your car's performance/MPGs.

Just save your money and keep the factor intake.

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Last edited by Gavintech; 03-08-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Torsional_Stiffness View Post
This is a highly pacifistic approach that does no one any good.
Its as much value as you add to the thread. Sorry my logical approach baffled you.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavintech View Post
My point was that if you can afford a brand new Mazda6, $200 is nothing. Not if it is a worthy mod, but that it is very cheap and IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN AN AFTERMARKET INTAKE $200 should be nothing to someone that can buy a brand new car that costs at least int he low $20,000's to the low $30,000's. I'm not saying that you should buy one or that it is worth it.

Moving further into your logic (that I cannot understand, even a little bit) I also don't agree with spending $200 to change the sound of my car, but you're willing to pay $50 to make your car SOUND faster? Talk about throwing money away! I wouldn't spend $20 for that.

Not to mention the $50 generic intake has a very real chance of taking away some of your car's performance/MPGs.

Just save your money and keep the factor intake.
So would you pay for exhaust? Minimal gains if any plus some sound.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Moose Muscles View Post
So would you pay for exhaust? Minimal gains if any plus some sound.
Not for minimal gains, no. Nor am I planning to on my 3rd gen Mazda6 (unless someone showed me dyno results with a certain combination of mods that showed a certain level of power gain that they have already achieved).

Every time I see/hear someone talking about spending $600 for exhaust just for the sound of it, especially on a car that will never actually perform up to said sound (the 14/15' Mazda6), I chuckle. I have no idea why anyone would do such a thing.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 09:01 PM
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Horsepower = Torque x RPM/5252

The engine develops less torque beyond it's peak as RPM increases due to the pumping action of the engine, accessory drive, etc. The engine will develop the same torque as horsepower at 5252RPM by virtue of mathematics.

Nevertheless horsepower increases beyond the torque peak as each engine pulse happens more frequently as RPM increases.

On a car like the Mazda6, cylinder displacement is 2.5 liters, the cam lift/duration is unchangeable, there are no aftermarket intake manifolds, the throttle body isn't going to get bigger as there are no aftermarket parts, etc. The engine will draw air for it's needs (RPM and load) burning fuel at a rate of 15.1 parts air for 1 part fuel thanks to the engine control management.

The car is designed with a redline of 6200RPM and generates 184hp at 5500RPM. If the car had a redline of 7000, it would probably generate less power at that RPM under it's current design. Could it generate more at 7000? Certainly, with more lift/duration/overlap designed into the cam. This would change the low-end torque, and the engineers already thought of this.

In the case where you put a hot cam in the engine and change the redline to 7000 (while replacing internals to prevent the bastard grenade on you), only then would an aftermarket CAI make a difference, as there would be a bottleneck in the air intake system as it attempts to draw the more air required to spin the 2.5L capacity of the engine more frequently.

Currently, the bottleneck for increased horsepower lies at the camshaft lobes/intake valves. It's a compromise. And these are designed to have the engine operate at the widest possible range.

Picture simply installing a larger throttle body. Does this improve performance? Nope. The intake manifold and cylinders are getting all the air required at it's current tuning. Adding a larger TB does nothing. Wherever the most restriction in the system is... is what needs to be changed to improve power.

And so we get to the almighty air filter. Rest assured that the current setup has enough flow to meet the engine's needs at every RPM and throttle load. They wouldn't have designed it otherwise.

What happens (possibly) is that the CAI allows less vaccum peak in the intake manifold, giving the illusion of greater throttle response. It would be the equivalent of opening your throttle body slightly more, which would do the same thing.

But at peak power, the air filter is not your bottleneck.
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