Researching tires has been fairly confusing since many people use them differently. Since you're the experts here I wanted to state what I need them for and see what folks here would suggest.

Firstly, I agree that the original Michelin Pilot tires are less than desirable. I live in MN and need a tire that can handle well in all kinds of weather; dry, wet, and also snow. I also would like them to last at least 60,000 miles since I drive for my job (mostly highway) and put on about 20,000 miles per year. I do drive spirited but am willing to give up a bit of traction for the tires lasting longer if I must.

So given that I need all season performance and would like tires that last 60,000 miles, are there any that will work?

Among many others I looked at:

Kumo Ecsta LX Platinum KU27
Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions
BFGoodrich Traction T/A V (recently discontinued)

Any feedback on these and other tires would be greatly appreciated!

No such tire exists. It is like seeking an athlete who has a realistic chance to qualify both for the Olympic Women's Gymnastics Team in the uneven parallel bars event and also for an NFL football team as a starting interior offensive lineman. Both positions require great athletes, but they need entirely different kinds of bodies, and you will not find a single athlete who can do both.

Life requires choices. One alternative choice is to get a set of tires that handle well in the wet and dry, and use those nine months of the year, and get a second set of tires that handle well in the snow and run that set three months of the year. Over the long run, the cost evens out due to shorter annual periods of running each set. That is the method used in most of those parts of the civilized world that see snow in the wintertime.

Funny stuff Post. I especially like the Franklin quote as he was one of my favorites since I grew up in Philly.

So how about some specifics. If no such tire exists, then what would be the tire YOU would recommend? How about if I compromise and look for great dry, decent wet, and something that will last for 60,000 miles? After all, that's what I got from the original tires.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

Thanks again.

I am glad that you were able to read my post in the light manner I intended it to be read, and not take offense.


See this post (click). If the German enthusiast magazines' test results are to be believed, the Hankook Ventus V12 evo (K110) is among the two or three best tires currently on the market in terms of braking performance, both dry and wet -- and may be the best among even that elite group. The cherry on top of the sundae is that in the 215/50R17 size it is currently selling for about $85 per tire. relatively inexpensive for a high performance tire.

I put about 12k on my Bridgestone 960as, a smooth and quiet riding tire but a tire with very soft sidewalls. The Bridgestones have a 40K mileage claim

While posttosh has some good knowledge of tires, he will suggest you a "summer" branded tire which will leave you stranded in the winter. So if you follow his advice you need to buy a second set of wheels + a set of winter tires also. So just keep that in mind if you go with a non all season tire, without buying a second set of wheels/tires you should expect to take off days that have snow falling.

Also you state that you want to get 60k from a set of tires, that is not something you will do with a performance tire. You should be looking at grand touring tires which tend to have longer treadwear and treadwear warranties. In the GT catagory, General Altimax HP's are a great tire and the michelin primacy mxv4(not the same tire that comes OEM on the 6) always tests well.

Theoretically, the Treadwear rating of a tire will tell you on a uniform scale. The NHTSA sets out a detailed testing regime to determine that number, but the tire manufacturers themselves do the actual testing, and there could bs some fudging going on. Theoretically, therefore, if your driving patterns gave you 60,000 miles from a set of Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires, Treadwear rating 300, then doing the same kind of driving you should expect 56,000 miles from Hankook Ventus V12 evo tires, Treadwear rating 280.

BTW, in the previous message, "sunday" should have read "sundae." I just noticed my typo in madduck99's quoting of my post. I'll go back and correct the typo in the original, but there is nothing I can do to change the embedded repetition of it in madduck99's post.

Wow, good stuff. I'll check those out. I would probably have another 2 to 3,000 miles on this set but I have a leak in one and we get some nice summer driving days here so I figured I would try to purchase a set in the next week or so.

Question: what do I give up with a grand touring versus a high performance tire? Will I be dissatisfied with the feel of the driving experience?

Finally, are my three listed options not good or does anyone find any of them acceptable? I'm especially interested in an opinion on the BF Goodrich since they are on special at $75 each due to being discontinued. I am concerned as to why they were discontinued, though.

I try to give good advice, and make no secret that the first criterion is safety. In the recent German Autobild test (accessible from the link above), 17 models of tire were tested against each other under controlled conditions. Unusually, the test group included both all-season ("Ganzjahresreifen") and non all-season tires. (Incidentally, I am unaware of any tire "branded" as a summer tire.) There were 15 non-all-season tire models under test and two Ganzjahresreifen models. In wet braking, the two Ganzjahresreifen (all-season) tires finished in 15th and 16th places, requiring seven or eight meters (a couple of car lengths) longer to come to a stop than the Hankook Ventus V12 shod vehicle did. Only the Chinese-built Kenda, which the magazine declared unsafe, fared worse in the wet braking runs. In handling on wet pavement, the two all-season tires again finished 15th and 16th, with the Kenda again finishing dead (perhaps literally, in actual driving) last. In wet pavement aquaplaning on curves, the all-season tires finished 16th and 17th behind even the Kenda.


I did recommend the two-sets-of-tires option. Around Thanksgiving, he would mount a pair of real winter tires -- if he wanted to stay with an all-Hankook solution, Hankook Ice Bears, probably on inexpensive steel wheels -- to take him through to St. Patrick's Day. In the kind of winters that he sees in Minnesota, the Ice Bears would be far, far superior and better matched to the conditions than any all-season tire.

And even in places that see snow, once it stops falling and the loose stuff is cleared from the road,the sun comes out and the roads end up wet -- where an all-season tire's compromised wet traction again would be a liability.

Grand touring is marketing palaver, and has no objective meaning in the real world. Usually, within a maker's line-up, the most expensive tires are called Ultra High Performance, the next line down are called High Performance, and the line below that Grand Touring. Generally speaking, the cheaper the tire, the longer the Treadwear rating, because buyers who place a higher priority on price vs. safety or performance also regard tread life as part of the price equation, so low price and high treadwear need to be yoked together to sell the tire to those customers.


BFG has been a third line of Michelin in North America for some years now, and is generally sold through different marketing channels than Michelin-branded tires. Just as automobile styling changes from year to year, so, too, are tires subject to periodic model refresh. Part of the reason is inventory control: tires quite literally go bad, like fresh fruit at the supermarket, just sitting in inventory on the shelf. Any tire older than about six years is at end-of-service-life, even if it has never rolled a mile on the ground. Responsible tire manufacturers pressure their retailers to get rid of old stock, and not to sell dangerously old tires. (If the tire fails on the road, it is more likely that the tire manufacturer will get sued than the retailer.) It is much easier for the manufacturer's rep to spot an old model of tire on the shelf than it is painstakingly to read the manufacturing codes moulded into the sidewall, so the changing of models helps the manufacturers crack the whip over the retailers.

Posttosh knows his tire info, made some great comments.

A visual comparison of the 3 tires listed, the BFGoodrich's will probably give you decent accel and stoping but will feel soft when turning. The Bridgestone's will probably have the most uniform dry to wet performance, and the Kumho's kinda bridge's between the other 2. (After making suggestions of my own) I want to note that the reviews on websites like tirerack may be misleading as anyone can give a rating and may have very little understanding of what they are experiencing.

With all that said I would agree with the other comments that the "best" thing to do is get a summer and winter set. I defiantly believe that the single best performance per dollar mod anyone can do is tires.

For my summer set I am running the Yokohama S drive's and for winter Pirelli 240 SnowSport's. Both are in the mid price range and are great for their respective seasons. The first winter I swapped the tires on the wheels to try to save some money and since I am in theDetroit area, I was left with a couple of bent wheels for the summer. I definitely suggests getting a set of used wheels to use for the winter set.

Once you drive on a set of performance winter tires... your world will change, especially with the snow you probably encounter every year.

This is tons of great info, Thanks! I have one final comment/question: While I agree that a summer/winter separate tire combination would be best (and I'm sure I would prefer it) I'm making one final attempt to ask about a year-round tire due to cost.

I've seen some good reviews about the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S which even some fellow 6 owners have compared quite favorably to the OEM tires. Now these only have a warranty for 45,000 miles but given their rating maybe I can get them to last closer to 50,000. They also have a rebate that would bring the cost down to about $150 per tire, which would be quite a bit less that buying two sets at around $100 - $120 each plus another four wheels.

What is everyone's take on this tire?

The Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S sounds like they will fit your needs the best as compared to the other three you listed.

You would be one heck of a lot better off with Hankook Ventus V12 evo at $85 per tire (that's eighty-five dollars per tire, $65 per tire less than the Michelins even after the rebate) and some inexpensive real winter tires than paying $150 per corner for the Michelins. Used wheels for the winter tires are cheap at wrecking yards, and every mile that you drive on the winter tires is mileage and wear that you will spare the tires that you drive on during the other nine months of the year. Over the life of the tires, the cost factors usually work out to a lower cost for the two-sets option.

On snowy roads, Tire Rack's tests (click) indicate that you will have much shorter stopping distances, on the order of several car lengths' shorter stopping distances, from even the reduced speeds you will be (or should be) traveling on loose snow, compared to your stopping distances with the all-season tires. On wet roads, which -- even in Minnesota -- you will see many more days than you will see roads with loose snow, and will likely be traveling faster on, you will have much shorter stopping distances, on the order of several car lengths' shorter stopping distances, from speed, with the Hankook Ventus V12 evo, compared to your stopping distances with the all-season tires. So in which months of the year do you want not to be able to stop in time? All of them? Why not just cut your brake lines instead?

That's a lot of typing for NOT answering his question, but then again, most of us are used to that.

OP:

The Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S are IMO slightly overpriced for this type of tire, but if the rebate brings the price down, I'd get them.

I'd also check out two others: The Bridgestone Potenza G 019 Grid and the Yokohama Avid V4S. Both tested well in Tireracks testing, and should suit your needs for good traction and treadlife.

you will not get 60k on a 18inch tire. no tire exists that is great in all those areas. The best one i have found for an all around tire is the EAGLE GT it is a great ride a little louder than stock. it doesn't handle as good as the stock tire but you can take it through water,snow,ice, and it grips pretty good on a launch. check them out you may get 35k on one but you wont get 60k on a tire with a car like this

Mz6GreyGhost, you disappoint me by going ad hominem. I thought that you were a bigger person than that.

Yes, usually I am, but I was having a bad day yesterday, and pretty much anything was setting me off. My apologies.

Having said that, if the OP wants to stick with an all-season, then so be it. You and I both know that it's not the best solution for driving, but we also both know that some people don't want or need to spend the extra $$$$ (and time) for a second set of wheels/tires. I also don't think that his decision deserves a comment such as this...
In his own thread, no less.

Post, I do hear you and agree that your advice will provide the best performance and long term value. I will research some local used parts stores to see what the damage would be for wheels that are passable for winter. If they're reasonable (<$50) I'll explore the route of two sets of tires. Otherwise, I'll go with an all season and muddle through.

I'll give an update for what I find. Thanks again for all the advice - it's been great!

Also, I should add that I don't take Post's comment about braking personally. He likes to be dramatic and I'm OK with that. It's entertaining as well as informative!

Try and get a 'skinner' rim/tire combo with an adequate load rating and close to same tire diameter but smaller rim diameter if you primarily see snow in winter... the tires for them will probably be considerably lower cost and they will generally do better in snowy conditions.

Here is some encouragement that valued Mazda6club member Brandini dug up and posted in another thread: Hankook Ventus V12s better than all-season Bridgestones in the snow?


Thank you for communicating that.

Post, it's clear that you're a good egg and everyone here has given great advice to help educate me so I can make a better buying decision. I can't thank you all enough since we all know this is a bigger decision for performance/safety than most people think.

With regard to the winter tires I was going to look for wheels and tires to fit the current size of 215/50-17. After seeing Uh-Oh's advice I'm wondering if there is a size that would work well for winter tires but cost less.

Can someone give me a size suggestion for both the tires and wheels?

16's will work. My winter set-up consists of 205/60-16 tires with 16x7 steel wheels. It's the base package for the 6, with no fitment issues, and the speedometer difference is well within the 2% tolerance.

You will pay more for the 16" tires/wheels compared to the 17" tires, but the price difference goes away after paying a shop from $5-$10 per wheel to remount/balance the snow tires on the same wheel twice per year. It's also much less wear and tear on both the wheels and tires if they don't have to be swapped all the time, and my '04 stock 17" rims look as good as new, without the yellowing and scratches that the winter salt/sand causes. You could even swap out the wheels/tires yourself with a floor jack instead of making an appointment at a shop and hoping to avoid a snowstorm before then.

Not necessarily. At tires-easy dot com, a Hankook Ice Bear W300 in the 205/60R16 size is priced at $78.⁴⁰, which is $43.⁰⁰ less than the same model tire in the 215/50R17 size ($121.⁴⁰). For $43 each, he should have no trouble finding Mazda6i (or Protege or Mazda3) wheels with the requisite offset at a wrecking yard.

I stand corrected, but it proves my point even further: 16" wheels/tires are still cheaper than 17" tires only.

I can't believe I'm typing this, but nice find, posttosh!

OK, I can't believe I'm typing this but I'm looking at junk yards for 16 X 7 wheels and 205/60-16 Hankook Ice Bears to pair with a set of Hankook Ventus V12's. I do like what I've been seeing on the links. The other bonus is that I don't have to purchase the set for winter for a few months. The one downer is that the Ice Bears are pretty spendy. Any suggestion for a different set for Winter?

Another thing I ran into was that Discount Tire only offers 215/45-17. Should I go to another site or are there advantages to that size on the 6? Also they are more like $95 each but maybe that is due to the slightly different size. That still beats the $163 Pilot Exaltos by a mile. However, If I pay $50 per wheel for a second set of wheels, I'd like to stay below $100 for tires especially since I'll only use them for 4 months of the year.

So I guess the good news is you've won me over but the bad news is that means I still need some help.

Thanks guys!

Because I like to give the benefit of an edge to site sponsors and tires-easy dot com is not yet a site sponsor, I shall not provide a clickable link, but you should look at tires-easy dot com. The largest mail order/Internet tire retailer in Europe is Delticom, and Delticom's subsidiary/alter ego in the United States is tires-easy dot com. Personally, I have never ordered from the company, but others who have ordered there have given the company high praise. Their website has all of the correct sizes of the tires you are looking for, at prices lower than the prices that your posting implies that you saw elsewhere. A 215/45R17 tire would be small for a North American spec Mazda6; in the 45 aspect ratio, you would go to a 225/45R17, but a 215/50R17 is still a better fit.

It's a little early for winter tires to be in stock in any great numbers. October is when most tire retailers get their best selection for the season, so I'd wait until then to get tires. As for wheels, I know that Tirerack offers 16" steel wheels along with winter tires in packages. They ship them mounted and balanced, and ready to be installed. You can also create your own package using steel or aftermarket wheels, and tires of your choice. I've dealt with Tirerack for years, and I've never been disappointed with their products, shipping, or customer service.

Again, just another option to look at.

OK so here's another twist. I called a bunch of places and only one has four used wheels and at $35 each so that's pretty good. However when I spoke to the guy he said that the standard equipment for the '06 Mazda 6 was a 16" X 6.5" wheel. Is this accurate or is he mistaken? If he's right and that is the size, what tire dimensions would be best for this size wheel? Would the 205/60-16 still work?

With regard to the summer tires, Discount Tire can get the 215/50-17 Ventus V12's at about $101 each, which is comparable to the $83 plus $18 shipping that tires-easy offers. Plus if I get the second set, they'll knock off $10 per tire on all 8, which is pretty significant.

So does anyone have alternatives to the Ice Bears? I see the Blizzaks are really spendy too.

Thanks again everyone!

I've had Blizzaks, and IMO I'd skip them. They have excellent winter traction until they're about half-worn, then their winter traction drops considerably, so much that they're sloppier than some all-seasons. I've also run Dunlop and Michelin winter tires, and can go through at least 3/4 tread without a noticeable loss in traction.

Just to confuse you even more, they're two different types of winter tires. "Studless Ice & Snow" tires (as Tirerack calls them) are your run-of-the-mill winter tires, achieving excellent winter traction, at the expense of handling, stability and accelerated wear when temps get above 50 degrees. "Performance winter" (another Tirerack term) are winter tires that give up extreme winter performance for better handling and control during dry days or when the temp gets warm.

IMO there are excellent choices in both categories to choose from. My 6 runs on the Dunlop SP Wintersport M3, which is IMO the best performance winter tire I've ever experienced, and the Wintersport 3D is also an excellent choice. My Altima (my wife's DD) runs on Dunlop Graspic DS-2, which are more suited for her driving, since her commute involves rural two-lanes with lots of blowing and drifting snow. They'll be on her car this winter for their 3rd season, and they're still excellent in snow, with very little treadwear for 18K miles.

Hope I didn't confuse you any further...

A 205/60R16 will do just fine on a 6.5" wide rim; just make sure that the wheel has sufficient offset to prevent rubbing in the rear wheelwell. If the wheel is a used Mazda6, Mazda3, or Mazda Protege wheel, you're golden.

You (and your wife) drive much more in snowy winter conditions than we do, and I am not about to express an opinion here about the relative performance merits of winter tires; your endorsement of the Dunlop line carries a lot of authority. (We did have a set of Blizzaks a few years back, and I will underscore your observation: they were impressive for about 3,000 miles, and fell off a cliff after that.)

Is there a likelihood that DemX could get any of the specific models of Dunlop that you mentioned in a 205/60R16 size for a lower price than the $78.⁴⁰/tire for which tires-easy dot com is selling each Hankook Ice Bear W300 in that size?

Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on where and when the purchase is made. My WinterSport M3s were on sale for $89/tire installed at the time, which I'd guess would be comparable to the Hankooks plus shipping (without installation).

Of course, that was last fall. Things have changed since them...

OK, I bought the extra wheels yesterday and placed the order for the Ventus V12's today! In addition to getting them for $93 each (due to 8 tire purchase at once) I will also be able to take advantage of the Hankook $50 rebate thereby reducing them another $12.50 each.

I'm pretty happy with that and can't wait to test them on the car.

Now I have the bug. What are some other things I can do to maximize handling and minimize tread wear?

I also want to know anything I can do to increase horsepower for a low price. Any suggestions for reading here at the forum?

That's great. Now, promise that once you have 100 or so miles on the new tires, you will post here with your impressions of the difference between the new tires and the old, o.k.?

Sure thing!

With regard to my question about settings to help performance or wear, are there changes to the suspension settings or anything I can ask my mechanic/dealership to make to help?

And any other small things I could do to increase overall HP?

Can't thank you guys enough. I think the last time I was this excited about driving was when I graduated from a 1980 VW Rabbit to an '89 Jetta GLI with the Recaro package. So it's been a while...

I've had them on since last Thursday and have been really happy with the improvement. Dry cornering was improved the most and I now feel the roll of the car is a more limiting factor than the traction on the tires.

Today came the big test with a heavy rainstorm and rush hour traffic. Turning onto the highway had minimal slip even though I had to punch it due to heavy traffic. Running through the sections of road where water is flowing across was most impressive since I felt no appreciable hydroplane at 65 MPH.

I'll check back in a week or so with additional feedback. Thanks for all the help!

That's good to "hear." Two of our tires are down to the wear bars, and we are on the verge of getting the Hankook Ventus V12 evos ourselves.

The biggest difference you will notice with the new tires vs. the OEM Michelins is that improved adhesion on wet surfaces that you noted on the on-ramp after the rainstorm. Here in the Pacific NW, we often find ourselves having to stop or slow 'way down on a steep uphill grade, and with all-season tires, hitting the accelerator from that situation almost always causes a half-rotation or more of wheelspin, even at low speeds. We observe it all the time in other cars on the road, but are largely immune from the phenomenon ourselves, as we do not have all-season tires. That same adhesion, of course, directly translates to better braking when the desire is deceleration, not acceleration.

We're glad that you are happy with your new shoes.

Two quick winter tire questions:

My neighbor has a set of Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice tires that are about four years old but they were only used for one season. He'll sell them to me for $50 for all four.

The only potential problem is they are 215/55 R16.

So I have two questions:

1) Will these fit on the 16" X 6.5" Mazda wheels I purchased or are they too big compared to the 205/60 R16 size you recommended? (It would seem if I'm running 215/50 R17 now that as long as they fit on the wheels they won't rub, right?)

2) Is the fact that the tires have been sitting in his garage for three years going to affect their performance in an appreciable way?

215/55R16 will fit fine on 6.5" rims. On the theory that you give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but you teach him to fish, and he eats for life, here is the procedure: You go to the manufacturer's website (in this case, Goodyear), or, if the tire is sold by Tire Rack, to the Tire Rack site, and -- if the latter -- you look at the specifications page for that tire, as here (click). Now, on the top column, you will see "Meas.Rim Width"; that is the size of the rim on which the tire was mounted when the dimensions of the tire -- such as the 215 mm section width -- were measured, and is the optimal size for that tire (in this case, 7"). Just to the left of that column is another headed "Rim Width Range." That is the RMA's (Rubber Manufacturers Association's) "approved" range of rim widths upon which the tire may be mounted and run safely, in this case, 6" to 7.5". Although it is usually a good idea for performance and comfort to avoid the extreme values of the range (6" or 7.5" for the 215/55R16 tire), both 6.5" -- your wheel's rim width -- and 7" are in the fat part of the rim range. That same page also will give you the manufacturer's spec (when the mfr publishes it) for revolutions per mile, which gives you a more precise figure for the tire's diameter/circumference than any of the "tire calculators" avaiolable on the web. In this case, the 215/55R16 Goodyear Ultra Grip (if mounted on a 7" wheel) will revolve 826 times per mile, very close to the 819 revolutions per mile of the OEM Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires on 17" OEM wheels. (The circumference of the tire will decrease slightly -- and the revolutions per mile increase -- over the life of the tire as the tread wears down, anyway.)

Here is a comprehensive manual (prepared by Bridgestone, but genearlly applicable) about tire load capacities as a function of inflation pressure: Tire_Replacement_Manual.pdf -- the good stuff is in Appendix B. That will give you a lot of useful information about the proper inflation pressure for your specific tire.

As to the age of those used Goodyears, the rule of thumb is that any tire over six years old is suspect. What you do not know is how old the tires were when your neighbor bought them -- tires often sit on a dealer's shelf for quite a while. There is a code moulded into the sidewall that can be deciphered to find the exact week of manufacture, but it takes a little sleuthing.

Great info! It looks like on tire rack they give maximum pressure and load info but on the Firestone manual there is much more detailed info.

The bottom line is that the winter tires at $50 for four look to be a decent way to get through one or two winters. They'll fit the wheels and should perform well according to the reviews and ranking in the snow.

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to educate me. I'll check in after 1,000 miles or so to let you know what's new with the V12's.

Similarly to the OP, I am looking for recommendations for good performing all seasons.

Before anyone asks why I'd endanger my life like that, I should point out that I live in DC in and apartment and don't have anywhere to store an extra set of wheels/tires. We get maybe two or three snows a year, but see freezing temperatures for a portion of the year. So, that rules out summer tires. In short, I'm looking for the best all seasons I can find that aren't worthless in the snow.

High on the priority list:
Wet traction, steering response, on-center feel, not overly harsh on bumps, not dangerous in the winter, rim protection (for parallel parking)

Lower on the priority list:
Treadware (don't drive every day), ultimate dry traction (though I expect a certain level of grip and predictability)

For reference, here are some thoughts on my current tires: Yokohama YK-520 (did not pick - they came on the wheels I bought used)
Dry traction is fine, but they slip too easily on wet roads, they feel "wandery" in a straight line, steering is a bit mushy, comfort & noise are within acceptable levels, do ok in the snow but I drive very carefully, and they have good curb protectors

Mods - if you prefer to split this off, go for it. I thought it would be somewhat applicable to the original post.

This is a reason to endanger the lives and property of those who share the road with you?
We used to live in Washington, D.C., and -- at least when we lived there -- the city had a public transit system. For two or three days a year, couldn't you use that? Or couldn't you find storage space for a set of Snobootz?


That was a non sequitur.

On ice, most all-season tires, which are made with very hard rubber compounds to get very high treadwear numbers (due to the priorities of the people to whom they are marketed), generally have worse traction than non-all-season tires, which usually have softer tread compounds. Similarly, on frozen dry pavement, a non-all-season tire (excluding the very small market segment designed for high temperature summer driving at high speed -- sometimes called "extreme performance" tires) with its softer tread compound, generally has better traction than a hard-compound all-season tire. There is a pretty strong inverse correlation between ice traction and the treadwear number (but no tire that is acceptable in the summer months is competent on ice unless it is fitted with chains; only true winter tires -- or tires fitted with chains or Snobootz -- should be driven on ice).

True winter tires are made with special tread compounds that stay soft even at very low temperatures, and that is why they are the best tires on ice; but those tread compounds are very, very different from the tread compounds found in all-season tires. At even moderate temperatures in the spring and summer, the soft-when-cold winter tires wear very rapidly, and at higher temperatures, they even "chunk" (lose integrity and start throwing off pieces of rubber). The warmer weather differences illustrates how different the tread compounds of winter tires are are from the tread compounds of all-season tires.


Of the three categories of tires under discussion, the wet traction capabilities of non-all-season tires are best, followed by the wet traction capabilities of winter tires. All-season tires come in third (last). What you have noticed about the Yokohama YK-520 -- slipping too easily on wet roads -- is the norm for all-season tires. You are looking for the female gymnast who can play interior offensive lineman on an NFL team (or the interior offensive lineman in the NFL who can qualify for the women's Olympics gymnastics team). You'll not find one who can do both.

Well aren't you just a bundle of joy? As I mentioned in my post, I DON'T DRIVE EVERY DAY. My commute consists of a 15 minute walk each way. Yes, most wintry days I won't need to drive. But there will be a handful of occasions in a given year when I'll need to drive in winter weather. It is not practical for me to rent year-round storage space for a set of dedicated winter tires that I'll use a handful of times per year. I will not be buying winter tires. I grew up in northeast Ohio that gets considerably more snow, and I learned how to get around on all-seasons. What percentage of the public do you think buys separate tires for the winter? I bet it doesn't break into the double digits.


Thanks for the self-righteous rant that does nothing to answer my question.

These look pretty promising: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...S+Pole+Position

I HAVE ASKED FOR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ALL SEASON TIRES. IF YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF PROVIDING THAT, THEN DON'T RESPOND.

To post in all capital letters is unseemly.

You have stated that your first priority is wet traction, and you have asked for a recommendation for all-season tires. One cannot do the latter while honoring the former.

An all-season tire that exhibits good wet traction is a mythological creature, like a unicorn or a mermaid. If anyone tells you that he knows where to find such a creature, he is ill-informed at best; at worst, he is a fraud.

If you ask where to find unicorns, do not complain about being told about narwhals and stallions; the responder is attempting to be both truthful and helpful.

If you ask where to find mermaids, do not complain about being told about fish stories, the siren songs recounted in Homer's Odyssey, and urban legends; the responder is attempting to be both truthful and helpful.

So here is what you need to do. Go into any tire retailer, and ask to purchase a set of all-season tires that have good wet traction; the store will happily sell you a set of all season tires, and if you pay the money, some employee of the store happily soothingly will assure you that the tires you have purchased exhibit good wet traction. After all, "the customer is always right." That might make you feel better, but it will not make the soothing assurances true; they will remain, stubbornly, false.

Nice, well they deleted one of your posts but you keep at it. Let me try to frame my question a different way.

1. I will be purchasing all-season tires.
2. I will not be purchasing summer tires.
3. I understand that, as a group, all-season tires may not provide the same level of traction as a dedicated seasonal tire in any number of conditions.
4. Understanding this, within the classification of the all-season tire, some will be geared more to performance than treadware, providing better than average wet grip, good steering response, decent dry grip, better winter traction than a summer tire.
6. I am confident that there is an all-season tires out there that would meet my needs.
7. I'd like recommendations on which all-season tire come closest to meeting my requests.
8. I would not like to be lambasted any further about my choice to purchase all-season tires.

posttosh- Keep giving good information, but lighten up on the condescending comments, ok?

Not everyone has the level of understanding you do with tires. The general public has been so brainwashed over the years into thinking they only need all-seasons, that it is hard to overcome the inertia.

However, you need to show more patience. If you can't, then simply do not respond, ok?

Or he could do what most people do and change driving styles.

I am also not convinced that snow tires improves safety across groups of people (fatality wise anyway as I haven't seen a study that shows fatalities go down with winter tires (there could be but I haven't seen one))
Most people drive as fast as what feels safe. My experience is that people with all-season tires drive slower than people with snow tires. Fatalities probably go down since fatality rates are low at low speeds. (Again I havent seen any studies one way or the other though).


Ive seen you recommend these several times recently on this forum as a solution; they are not.

For one, they dont even make them in our 17" tire size

For two, they dont really improve safety. If you actually read the independent testing papers (actually paid for by the company but done independently at a university in my state) its pretty clear that they are unsafe for FWD cars. The brake balance between front and rear is too far off and the rear loses it when braking. They also found that the cleat spacing is too wide; one side of the car can grab while the other side 'misses' the cleat which puts a torque on the car and induces a spin. (Braking distances tend to be shorter but not necessarily safer).

They did show however that they are effective in accelerating the car. So basically you can get up to speed faster but your braking is still dangerous. Think about that.

If you could buy a set of four (which you cant for our size) you could get a set of four and negate some of the above effects.. but that's cost prohibitive at $440. At that price there are far better options.

You also mention in another post that they are effective in loose snow. They were never tested in loose snow in the tests provided by the company; the test environment was all packed. Consumer reports did test them in loose snow and they came to the conclusion that they dont improve traction over all seasons.



As ive tried explaining this to you in the past numerous times...(http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=113590) this is not true.
Im not going to try and explain why this is again for you (eg. glass transision temps, hyrophilic tread compounds, hysteresis, ect.)

Instead look at tireracks testing for a more black and white example.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=80
Tires on ice: Higher number is better
Max Performance Summer Wear Rating: 140 Total Score : 62 (Accel, Stop, Corner)
UHP All Season Wear Rating: 400 Total Score : 75 (Accel, Stop, Corner)

All seasons usually perform better on ice than summer tires... not the other way around.

Ive personally confirmed this with my summer UHPs

And another test they performed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s


Again Im not going to try and explain this to you again (http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=113590) but summer tire traction tends to significantly go down at lower temperatures way before all seasons.
Read tirerack article provided above and they briefly cover this also.


As I showed you above... there isnt.
There could be if you look in the same 'class' of tire.. but I haven't seen any data on this.


Um no.. Running summer tires in winter is dangerous. Remember when I tried explaining the concept of the glass transition temp in another post? Well when one fully goes into the region summer tires can crack in extreme cold. On top of that most chains dont purely rely on the chain, they still expose a large tire contact patch, and as covered above summer tires do not function as well as other tire treads in the cold.

Further more its illegal to chain summer tires in some states for the reasons above.

As for snobootz... I already covered those above.


Implying that non winter tires don't stay soft at low temperatures when cold? Your view has changed since our last discussion, which is fine (http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=113590). Glad to hear it. It would have been nice of you to tell me this instead of abandoning the last discussion without notice after being kinda rude.


Actually the wet traction capabilities of summer tires are comparable to 'good' all seasons except for a couple select summer tires at 'normal' temps according to testing available at tirerack on tires available for the 6. Also the wet traction abilities for winter tires fall when temperatures increase... All seasons are better in 'warm' conditions than winter tires in respect to wet traction (performance winter tires would be close to all seasons).



No... 'good' all seasons have very comparable wet traction to most summer tires, at normal temps, when the wear ratings aren't at the extremes according to testing available at tirerack on tires available for the 6