Stock:

Ext: .321 lift with 191 degrees @ .050"
Int: .372 lift with 208 degrees @ .050"


Modded:

Ext: .348 lift with 204 degrees @ .050"
Int .398 lift with 216 degrees @ .050"



I did not give them those specs to grind them to, and I did not even tell them to grind them. They are supposed to be ground friday. I am compiling a list of questions to hit them with, if anyone wants to ask them something then post it up.

Edit: I messed the specs up

I thought you were going to get new billet cams made?

How are we supposed to adjust the valve lash for the new cams, if they are ground and the lift is higer they must have a smaller base than the OEM cams, and IIRC we have a shimless non-adjustable valvetrain.. Replacing all those lifter buckets would get very tedious and expensive...

The cam is hard welded and ground, base circle is the same.

interesting!

Thought about a little more lift on the exhaust?

That would work, I've just never been a fan of regrinds--do they have any plans to offer new billet cams?

No one is going to make a billet version. This isnt a regrind.

Basicly they weld a hard alloy bead around the entire surface of the lobe and then grind that down to spec. It is pretty trick and while it is expensive, it does hold up very well and it gets good reviews.

I'm keeping an eye on this one. How much they want if it's successful?

Also, will this require you to change valve stems and/or springs?

I am paying $550, but a group buy price would be $450

I don't have an answer for that one yet. The valves will likely remain unchanged, although I will probably change mine. The springs and perhaps the retainers will likey need to be replaced.

Corpus,
Thanks for doing this. The results should be very interesting.

I believe upgrading the valve and the springs is well worth addressing. There are many built engines in the pipeline now and it only makes sense to use, at a very minimum, stiffer springs. Don't get me wrong I think stronger, polished valve stems would be great, just haven't had much luck sourcing those.
Have you found stiffer springs?
Really these two mods could easily be added to any rebuild as both insurance against valve float and provide the necessary strength to make a custom cam a drop in option now or in the future.

NICE WORK!

Please keep us posted:)

+1

i wonder if the stock ecu will be able to compensate

tuneing for new cams with the standback is going to be a bitch

<cough> whoosh should try it out <cough>

Oh, was that out loud?

I am not too interested in a cam that is so huge that it is going to require a tune. Mainly looking for some lift with a little duration.

If this screws up the ecu I will have my stock set of cams sitting here. I will probably end up having Lou on speed dial so he can hash out a tune for it. Tuning for a cam isn't that hard, I just don't want to have to do it.

As far as springs and valves, I will get some. Worst case i'll get a custom set done like my last engine. I am hoping to find a set of drop in replacements, that would be sweet. I was running Chevy springs on my Mustang last time, I just ended up sourcing a different retainer and it was a direct swap.

Cam is in the mail today, and I confirmed that it uses the stock buckets.

They gave me the name of a valve spring company that they directly work with, they told me to call them for spring pressure recomendations. I need to get the heads back and measure the springs before I can do that though.

Damn, I'm glad Stegemeyer is up the road from me. I'll just take everything to him and say "I want another 20% of flow and another 2000rpm. Here's $1500. Thanks." and be done with it, lol.

thats great news

to be honest, if i make a cam change its going to have to be a big one like going from stock cams to hks 272's on a dsm

My understanding is that Mazdas are not cam friendly and with that in mind, HKS 272's and similar cams would take alot of work to get running.

you know now that you say that i havent ever seen anyone change a cam on direct injected motor

If I found out why that is ill let ya know haha

What do you guys think about adjusting those values just a little more? I'm concerned we wouldn't see much from such a slight extension in duration.

I was thinking something like changing duration on Intake to 222 and Exhaust to 210 and even adding a little more lift. Would this be ok with the clearances Corpus?
Will our lifters accept regrinds? I have a few friends that have had great experiences with Schneider out in Cali and I'm worried our valvetrain wont accept a regrind cleanly.

As you know the increase in duration may widen the overlap...and turbos don't like much overlap.

Did they have the overlap specs calculated for your cams?

maybe I'm wrong? but I thought increasing duration reduced overlap, maybe i have it backwards

Yep, backwards. Turbo, or any FI in general wants more lift and less duration to let a much air in as possible, then shut tthe door quickly to keep it from blasting out the exhaust before it goes boom.

Not quite....increasing duration leads to more overlap (the time both intake and exhaust is open). For higher performance engines it's fine. For DD and especially turbo's too much overlap hurts.

I don't honestly know how much lift I can run on this engine. We will find out though.

Update?

Waiting on valves, valve springs, spring seats, retainers, and a gasket set. Once I get that I need to take to heads over for a gasket match and bowl work. Then I am going to ceramic coat the combustion chamber. Then it is all going to get installed.

Custom valvetrains take alot of time, but once I get it i'll post all the part numbers so everyone will have it easier than me haha.

Exhaust Valve Specs:
Installed Stem Height: 1.595 - 1.657" (Not measured - off of the head spec sheet)
Intake Valve Lash: .009 - .011" Cold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intake Valve Specs:
Installed Stem Height: 1.600 - 1.662" (not measured - off of the head spec sheet - probably not correct)
Exhaust Valve Lash: .011 - .013" Cold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intake and Exhaust Springs:
Installed Height: 1.129" (not measured - off of the head spec sheet)
Closed Pressure: 88# @ 1.129" (not measured - off of the head spec sheet)
Open Pressure: Unknown

EDIT: the rest is updated below in post #40

Thank you!

No problem, good luck with whatever it is that you need those specs for haha.

Valve Spec post edited, I swaped the intake and exhaust labels and changed the installed stem height measurements.

Actually everything I did not measure is not correct, ill fix it tomarrow.

Stock Cam Spec Sticky?

how can we verify our valvetrain will accept a re-ground cam?

I am not using a regrind, but you could probably do it with longer valves and a set of springs. It would be really trick and the different valvetrain couldn't be mass produced because of variances in the regrinds. Basicly you would take the regrind and install it and measure the lash and then order custom valves to take up the difference, you might even have several different lengths of valves because I have had regrinds that are off .013" between lobes. *coughcranecough*

Intake valves updated, I haven't measured the exhaust fully yet.

Any idea why that smaller intake port looks like that?







Ahh yes our EGR port.

Just shot an email off to Super Tech for a full spec sheet, they list a set of valves for the MZR that matches our valve size. Cross your fingers that we have a off the shelf valve and we don't have to go custom. A set of decient custom valves for us is in the $1200 range.

I believe you will need to go custom.
I have sourced a complete valvetrain upgrade, including 1mm over size valves, from Ferrea for about $850.

Ok these are the specs for both valves, and a couple measurements have been slightly changed.

My exhaust valve is measures:

Overall length: 104.65mm
Tip length: 3.8mm/ From the top of the groove
Seat Width: 3.79mm
Seat Angle: 45 Degrees
Back cut Angle: 22 Degrees
Back cut Depth: 4.6mm
Head Diameter: 30mm
Retainer Groove: Radius
Groove depth .75mm
Stem Diameter @ valve guide: 5.95mm
Stem Diameter @ retainer: 5.45mm
Margin Width: 1.2mm
Margin Cut: Radius



My intake valve measures:

Overall length: 103.40mm
Tip length: 3.8mm/ From the top of the groove
Seat Width: 2.62mm
Seat Angle: 45 Degrees
Back cut Angle: 22 Degrees
Back cut Depth: 7.62mm
Head Diameter: 35mm
Retainer Groove: Radius
Groove depth .75mm
Stem Diameter @ valve guide: 5.95mm
Stem Diameter @ retainer: 5.45mm
Margin Width: 1.2mm
Margin Cut: Radius

I cannot order directly from Ferrera since I am not a shop or distributer, they ballpark quoted me $1120 for a complete set of valves. If you want to take these measurements and try to source a set of valves, I would really appreciate it. I am working so much that it is really hard for me to find time.

Does anyone have a installed height and coil bind spring measurement? We could really use that.

EDIT: I had the intake and exhaust tags backwards, corrected.

Thanks for posting that, very helpful.

I have already had a machine shop source the parts from Zeke at Ferrera. Here are the specs:

It includes +1mm CompPlus valves, Dual valve spring rated to 13.5mm lift, Titanium spring retainer, billet valve locks, custom valve spring seat, Manganese/Bronze valve guides, Viton valve stem seals.


The shop wants $2000 total for parts and labor, so sounds about what you found. I do not believe Ferrera is willing to share part numbers and the like direct to the customer without going through a retailer. If I decide to pursue this I will obviously have all the necessary info to repeat it.

Yeah, that is way to much for a set of valves. The intake valve appears to be stainless so I could be comfortable reusing it, even though a lighter version would obviously be better.

Our exhaust valve is noticably darker than the stainless intake valve, it appears to be coated with something, exactly what I do not know. The huge problem is that we probably have a coated SS exhaust valve. The best SS exhaust valves are rated to 20psi before having heat related issues, and that is our limitation. I will not run the boost pressure that I want unless I know the engine can handle it, and at a minimum the exhaust valve is a huge question mark.

On the post with the valve specs, I had the exhaust and intake tags reversed. It has been fixed.

Update on the Supertech valves:
The valves will work, the exhaust valve is 1mm oversize if you want the inconel option. My head porter confirmed that there is room for a 1mm oversize exhaust valve, just not a oversize intake valve. The catch is that you have to press new 5.5mm guides into the head. I am going to order a couple of them to verify fitment.

As a unexpected bonus, our stock valvetrain is being rated at 8000+rpm. If I had a gram scale and our valves are light enough we have the springs for a 9000rpm valvetrain. This is being cited as the reason our cam material is so hard from the factory, our stock spring pressure of 85-90lbs @ 35mm would destroy a regular cam. We basicly have a factory racing head.

That's great to hear, should save a ton of work when weactually get some cams available. I'd never rev to 9K, but it would be nice to run the gt35 out to near 8K at the strip..

Lol, talk about top-end power.

So the valve train is good to go, we just need different cams, right? Does that mean we need different valve stems too?

You dont need a new valvetrain unless you plan to run more than 20psi. As lean as this engine can burn, I think inconel exhaust valves offer a nice safty factor. I like to build stuff once and never mess with it again so I am replacing all the factory valves with valves that have published meterial specs.

+1

Nice work!

So we have no intake valve available for a safety factor? I very much plan to exceed 20 psi pressures, and I'll take any pre-caution available.