Track Prep for 2nd Gen Mazda 6

[alextouring]

I've decided to forget dragging around the trailer and the race car for instructor days and use the daily driver; 2nd Gen Mazda 6.

I'm looking for information from people who have been lapping in their 2nd Gen M6 cars and may tell me this is a terrible idea and not to by brakes, rubber and break fluid.

I tracked my Gen 1 and was near suicidal with the lack of LSD but I quickly forgot about that once I had 95% brake fade going into turn 10 at Tremblant after lap 2. This was with red line break fluid, Hawk pads and some suposed good street rubber.

First day on the new car coming up on Friday in Stock configuration. I will report the damage by Monday.

Alex B
Montreal Qc.

[Business]

Lol, I'd be shocked if anyone on here had brought their 09 6 to a course and raced it.

Because you'll be driving a heavier car with the same exact braking components as the 06+ 6i/6s, expect the brake fade to happen earlier than before. Upgrading pads to prevent brake fade without upgrading the rotors is a self-defeating process as these rotors are simply not designed for that nor the extra 200-400lbs the 2nd gen carries around.

I'd be awfully cautious.

And btw, you're not going to do this without some good tires, are you?

[MrTea]

hit up Anthony at AWR, he might have some input for you. i think he build the 2 new ones they use up at Laguna for pace cars, so he might have some ideas and even parts for you?

given you instruct, there's nothing you can do with stock parts to not get them to fade if you are familiar tracking. if you have a bit of cash to spend, and if they parts are in fact exactly the same (master all the way down), the Brembo 1 piece kit is a good budget kit that does great for double duty. Though i'd recommend running maybe some pagid blues for track days (swap em out before you drive there, swap em back the next day).

there are other option for brakes, but if you are just looking for fun that won't let you down, they are the cheapest currently. given my car was a Gen 1, and somewhat gutted, i didn't have any issues after 3 full days at Laguna Seca, though i think i pushed the Ferodo's a bit since i got a bit of judder as well.

tires are obvious, but you can drive any car fast around the track if you are showing lines and braking....tires don't matter as much. if you want times to drop, then obviously tires will help.

similar with the front sway and some springs, they help tremendously, but the stock car will be just fine for some fun lapping and showing some lines. Hell, my times in my '90 miata, with worse than stock brakes and mismatched tires were within a couple seconds of speed 3's and 6's just from the driving line and brake points.....people learn plenty from a couple laps in that crap bucket.

[alextouring]

QUOTE (Business @ Jul 1 2009, 10:52 PM)

Lol, I'd be shocked if anyone on here had brought their 09 6 to a course and raced it.

Because you'll be driving a heavier car with the same exact braking components as the 06+ 6i/6s, expect the brake fade to happen earlier than before. Upgrading pads to prevent brake fade without upgrading the rotors is a self-defeating process as these rotors are simply not designed for that nor the extra 200-400lbs the 2nd gen carries around.

I'd be awfully cautious.

And btw, you're not going to do this without some good tires, are you?[/b]

For the purpose of the excercise I will start bone stock and give the official report after (I don't expect much more then 2 warm laps before the fade begins). If I can pick up a brake kit before the next event, Calabogie Raceway that will be the next step. Keeping in mind this is a grocery getter with a baby seat. If I'm not in a wall or on my roof by then i may go for a suspension setup. I'm not sure when I'll go to Sticky rubber for the time being. The lack of adheasion will keep me on my toes and slow enough not to do anything too stupid.

BTW I've got some funny shots of the last gen Mazda 6 bearing down on a viper until I get so deep into tire roll over that the rimes start to spark around the corners.

Alex

[alextouring]

QUOTE (MrTea @ Jul 2 2009, 04:50 AM)

hit up Anthony at AWR, he might have some input for you. i think he build the 2 new ones they use up at Laguna for pace cars, so he might have some ideas and even parts for you?

given you instruct, there's nothing you can do with stock parts to not get them to fade if you are familiar tracking. if you have a bit of cash to spend, and if they parts are in fact exactly the same (master all the way down), the Brembo 1 piece kit is a good budget kit that does great for double duty. Though i'd recommend running maybe some pagid blues for track days (swap em out before you drive there, swap em back the next day).

there are other option for brakes, but if you are just looking for fun that won't let you down, they are the cheapest currently. given my car was a Gen 1, and somewhat gutted, i didn't have any issues after 3 full days at Laguna Seca, though i think i pushed the Ferodo's a bit since i got a bit of judder as well.

tires are obvious, but you can drive any car fast around the track if you are showing lines and braking....tires don't matter as much. if you want times to drop, then obviously tires will help.

similar with the front sway and some springs, they help tremendously, but the stock car will be just fine for some fun lapping and showing some lines. Hell, my times in my '90 miata, with worse than stock brakes and mismatched tires were within a couple seconds of speed 3's and 6's just from the driving line and brake points.....people learn plenty from a couple laps in that crap bucket.[/b]

Love the reference "crap bucket" I'll speak with Anthony and see where I stand. If I can avoid the run off or the wall while teaching and give the official bad driver in a great car a run for his/her money, I'll be perfectly content.

Thanks,

Alex

[Business]

QUOTE (Alex Touring @ Jul 2 2009, 04:52 AM)

For the purpose of the excercise I will start bone stock and give the official report after (I don't expect much more then 2 warm laps before the fade begins). If I can pick up a brake kit before the next event, Calabogie Raceway that will be the next step. Keeping in mind this is a grocery getter with a baby seat. If I'm not in a wall or on my roof by then i may go for a suspension setup. I'm not sure when I'll go to Sticky rubber for the time being. The lack of adheasion will keep me on my toes and slow enough not to do anything too stupid.

BTW I've got some funny shots of the last gen Mazda 6 bearing down on a viper until I get so deep into tire roll over that the rimes start to spark around the corners.

Alex[/b]

Interesting. I'm really curious to see your reports now, lol. I know what you mean about the lack of adhesion preventing from making too big of a mistake, haha.

Feel free to post up photos of the said Viper encounter. Btw, I'm almost certain I know the answer to this, but you're driving a 6i or 6s? And the previous 6 you had was which?

edit:
Nevermind, lol, I was right.

[alextouring]

Here is the verdict:


Good news, bad news, good news...

(Preface: Stock Mazda 6 s Sport at le Circuit Mont Tremblant)



The Good news was that it was raining when I got there. Why is that good news, you ask? Well, the car in stock setup on a high speed racetrack with 3 very deep breaking sections is unlikely to survive more then a couple hot laps in the dry. The rain allowed the tendencies of the car to show sooner while minimizing increased temperature issues like tires, brakes and brake fluid.



The car was heavy, as expected, but carried well. It had a very neutral posture with the usual propensity to under steer. The Michelin MXV4 S8 tires left much to be desired and vibrated to show their discontent when trying to turn on all the wet sections. There were no problems with the brakes and the ABS performed well with not too much interference or vibration. In the rain, there were no problems sharing the track with the other generally well prepared instructor vehicles.


The Bad News was the rain stopped, the track dried up and the big HP cars with slicks and R compounds came out to play.


Opening comment is tire squeal! Taking advantage of the minimal warm up needed for rock hard 440 A A rated tires and stock brake pads, I launched out of the pits, remembering to disable the TSC and go into "manual" mode. Diving into turn three, the corner worker woke up with a panicked look in his eyes as the symphony of tires squeals filled the air under opening lap full course yellow Every corner from there on in was an attention drawing plea for help and we raced around the track at not so breakneck speeds.


The 272 HP engine was a good friend to have, to make up for the fact that I could not turn or stop very well. The "manual" mode could not keep up, by itself, as I asked it to down shift going into the corner while deep into the breaks. I decided to see if we could work around the transmission with a little "heel and toe". Eureka! It worked! As I braked to bring the car to the correct speed for the corner, I rolled my foot to the gas pedal and brought the rpm’s to something more acceptable for the computer to allow a downshift...and off I went!


The Good news² was the car held up! 160 track miles in one day! With some very committed cool down laps and a little bit of judgment as the brake pedal got deeper and deeper, I was able to enjoy a great day at the track. I switched the front tires to the rear at lunch to spread out the rounding effect the track had.


The overall handling of the 2nd gen over the older Mazda 6 was surprising. Considering the 2-400 lbs surplus, it did much better than its predecessor. I attribute this to the suspension and the possible weight distribution of the car. The diagonal weight transfer was much less a factor. The transfers happened very predictably and did not linger, bouncing over and over, unsettling the car and disallowing a clean exit of the corner.


The brakes held on by the skin of their tires with a maximum fade of about 70% with a little management. The engine temp did not seem to budge as far as the guage was concerned but there was a little spray coming from what seems to be a radiator valve. The steering was predictable and the tires will get the baby where she needs to go for a few more summers.


Overall I was very pleased with the 6 speed automatic, 3.7 liter, 272 hp, 3300+ lb 2009 Mazda 6 on its first day at one of North Americas most beautiful tracks, Le circuit Mont Tremblant.


If you have any other questions please let me know,



Alex B.
Montreal, Canada

[alextouring]

I forgot to note about the non limited slip differential. There was a large amount of wheel spin from the inside tire that really slowed the exit of corners but is seems less dramatic then on the 1st Gen that would feel like it spun in a streight line...

QUOTE (Alex Touring @ Jul 7 2009, 08:57 AM)

Here is the verdict:


Good news, bad news, good news...

(Preface: Stock Mazda 6 s Sport at le Circuit Mont Tremblant)



The Good news was that it was raining when I got there. Why is that good news, you ask? Well, the car in stock setup on a high speed racetrack with 3 very deep breaking sections is unlikely to survive more then a couple hot laps in the dry. The rain allowed the tendencies of the car to show sooner while minimizing increased temperature issues like tires, brakes and brake fluid.



The car was heavy, as expected, but carried well. It had a very neutral posture with the usual propensity to under steer. The Michelin MXV4 S8 tires left much to be desired and vibrated to show their discontent when trying to turn on all the wet sections. There were no problems with the brakes and the ABS performed well with not too much interference or vibration. In the rain, there were no problems sharing the track with the other generally well prepared instructor vehicles.


The Bad News was the rain stopped, the track dried up and the big HP cars with slicks and R compounds came out to play.


Opening comment is tire squeal! Taking advantage of the minimal warm up needed for rock hard 440 A A rated tires and stock brake pads, I launched out of the pits, remembering to disable the TSC and go into "manual" mode. Diving into turn three, the corner worker woke up with a panicked look in his eyes as the symphony of tires squeals filled the air under opening lap full course yellow Every corner from there on in was an attention drawing plea for help and we raced around the track at not so breakneck speeds.


The 272 HP engine was a good friend to have, to make up for the fact that I could not turn or stop very well. The "manual" mode could not keep up, by itself, as I asked it to down shift going into the corner while deep into the breaks. I decided to see if we could work around the transmission with a little "heel and toe". Eureka! It worked! As I braked to bring the car to the correct speed for the corner, I rolled my foot to the gas pedal and brought the rpm’s to something more acceptable for the computer to allow a downshift...and off I went!


The Good news² was the car held up! 160 track miles in one day! With some very committed cool down laps and a little bit of judgment as the brake pedal got deeper and deeper, I was able to enjoy a great day at the track. I switched the front tires to the rear at lunch to spread out the rounding effect the track had.


The overall handling of the 2nd gen over the older Mazda 6 was surprising. Considering the 2-400 lbs surplus, it did much better than its predecessor. I attribute this to the suspension and the possible weight distribution of the car. The diagonal weight transfer was much less a factor. The transfers happened very predictably and did not linger, bouncing over and over, unsettling the car and disallowing a clean exit of the corner.


The brakes held on by the skin of their tires with a maximum fade of about 70% with a little management. The engine temp did not seem to budge as far as the guage was concerned but there was a little spray coming from what seems to be a radiator valve. The steering was predictable and the tires will get the baby where she needs to go for a few more summers.


Overall I was very pleased with the 6 speed automatic, 3.7 liter, 272 hp, 3300+ lb 2009 Mazda 6 on its first day at one of North Americas most beautiful tracks, Le circuit Mont Tremblant.


If you have any other questions please let me know,



Alex B.
Montreal, Canada[/b]

[MrTea]

nice write up!

[alextouring]

QUOTE (MrTea @ Jul 9 2009, 08:56 AM)

nice write up![/b]

Thanks, I hope to get more track days and evolutionary info over the summer. I just need to find the right people to deal with for parts as I do my testing.

Alex B.