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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-09-2006, 03:13 AM
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So I gather car #1 which has the stock projector also had its metal glare piece in ... or was it taken out ?
[/b]
Car #1 had the up-beam reflector a.k.a. "squirrel finder" in place.

Quote:
So I guess with an H1 HID kit you get the same stock light output pattern ? Is this what you observed ?
[/b]
Yes, a kit installed into a halogen projector will only create an exagerrated light output pattern that's pretty much the same as the stock halogen pattern. Complete with hotspots, glare and fuzzy cutoff line with no colour.

Quote:
I've read that the ECE projectors are needed when you have Xenon-charged bulbs cause they light up at the tip of the bulb , unlike the halogens that light up the whole part of the bulb (if I remember correctly) .
Does this still apply with the H1 Xenon-charged kit ?
[/b]
The xenon bulbs that you get in a kit are rebased bulbs. This means that the base of the bulb was altered to make it fit a halogen application. The bulb itself isn't too different from a "real" xenon bulb. The quality of the kit bulb, however, is questionable. So, lets just say, for simplicity sake, that kit bulbs are xenon bulbs since, as you mentioned above, they create a longitudinal arc of light just as "real" xenon bulbs do.

Now, you need to keep in mind that a xenon headlight system has many components that are designed to work together. The bulb is only half of the team, so to speak. The other half of the team is the projector.

It makes little to no sense to put a xenon bulb inside a halogen projector. Halogen projectors are made for halogen bulbs, and no attention is paid to the special needs that the xenon bulb has. The shape of the bowl is incorrect, the type of lense that sits in front of the bowl is incorrect, and the cutoff shield is also not correct.

What you need, when using a xenon bulb, is a proper HID projector. ECE projectors are only one type of HID projector. HID projectors also come in a DOT variant and are also ideal.

You also should keep in mind a few other things. Kit bulbs, although they work on the same principles as "real" xenon bulbs, are not of the same quality. They often have less that 50% of the life of an OEM xenon bulb, and they also quite often have focal point issues. This means that, whereas an OEM xenon bulb creates a perfect arc of light, according to the accepted specs, an aftermarket kit xenon bulb will create an approximate arc.

Also note that kit bulbs are never made by reputable companies. Philips, Osram, Hella, etc, do not involve themselves in the manufacture of kit bulbs, or complete kits for that matter. Kit bulbs are made by small outfits that lack the technology or standards to create a bulb that can operate to spec.

Quote:

The following is what one member posted :

I have 5000K Xtec, they have been installed for over a year now. No issues, rarely get a high beam flash from oncoming traffic (maybe twice in over a year) and they are a huge improvement over stock. Look very white to slightly blue, depending on angle you look at the headlights. White from head on, blueish at side angles. I have had many compliments on the lights and when anyone gets in the car at night it is the first think they notice. Also good to note that as HIDS age they will get higher in the K scale over time.

And what he answered to my questions in PM :

The kit I have uses the existing stock projectors. The install was easy, only had to drill a small hole in the dust caps at the back of the headlight assembly to pass the wires through. Then mount the ballasts.

I believe flashing the high beams leaves the low beams on, so you should not have any issues with ballast life when flashing high beams. I know I have not.

I did not remove the or change anything on the stock headlamp. I have no issues with glare. It could be the fact that I have eyelids, but they do not get in the way of the beam as I can see the cut offs clearly. The light output is very improved over stock. It is a night and day difference for me. I have yet to come by another car that illuminates the road as bright as mine does not. That includes all sorts of Lexus, Nissan, BMW, Benz, Audi, Infiniti, MazdaSpeed, etc cars that have factory HIDs. As far as signs go, that was one of the first things I noticed. Signs now illuminate a lot more due to the white, blue light output. Especially any signs with reflective properties.


I'd like your opinion on that as well . Much appreciated as usual zoomzoomfan
[/b]
Ok, a few things going on here. Glare isn't necessarily going to be a huge issue with halogen projectors with xenon bulbs. Some projectors are worse than others, but projectors are always way better than reflectors. I loathe those morons (ricers usually) who stick HID kits into a reflector... usually Civic people.

But, I'm by no means saying that glare won't exist in a halogen projector with kit setup. It will still be there, but less of it. Also, you'd be amazed how tolerant oncoming drivers are to glare these days. The only way you'll notice glare in your halogen projector with kit, is when you park next to a car with an OEM setup and pay attention to the differences. Its guaranteed that you won't see glare in the OEM setup.

Secondly, the person who you're referencing is only guessing that flashing the highbeams won't be an issue. I can tell you that it will be an issue. Park infront of a window with your low-beams off, and then flash your highbeams and let me know what you see. When flashing, keep the flashes a bit prolonged. You should notice that your lowbeams come on during the flash. You don't want this happening when there's a ballast installed on your lowbeams. Sure, it won't kill the ballast right away... and it won't harm your ballast to accidentally flash on occasion, but repeated behaviour will definitely cause problems.

Lastly, about the kit making more light than OEM... hehe, this is unfortunately a common fallacy for kit-users. What happens when a kit is installed in your halogen projectors is that the projector simply dumps all that light onto one spot on the road. This spot, combined with the spot from the other projector will give you the illusion that the road is being lit up more.

An HID projector, OTOH, is designed to evenly spread the light out from left to right. In essence, the intense light from the xenon bulbs is being properly "managed" by the projector and hence light distribution is even.

This gives the kit user the impression that his/her lights are superior. Not true.

HTH

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-09-2006, 12:27 PM
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holy..... umm... gogogo haroon !! lol

Tanabe GF210 Springs, AutoExe CF grill, Retrofit (Bosch E46/Audi TT DOT projector) + Philips D2S 5000K (85122+) bulbs, Lower fog, 2 x 10" Sony Xplod, MTX MXA6001 Class D amp, 12" Varad White LED bar + 4 x Varad single LEDs, Airbox Mod, Sidemarkers Mod, Taillight Mod, Foglight Mod, Clear sidemarkers, 4 x white 6-WLEDs, 4 x white 5-LEDs, 2 x orange 5-LEDs, 2 x Polarg Hybrid XenonWhite 194 bulbs, 2 x blue 921 LEDs, 2 x OEM muffler tips,Redline MTX fluid, Ichiban Shift Knob, Ractive Shift Boot, TWM short shifter, Focal PolyGlass 130v1 components, Infinity 6802cf, Duplicolor Red caliper paint, Royal Purple 5W20 Synthetic Oil, Hawks brake pads
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-09-2006, 02:40 PM
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Thanks for the support Tim

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 02:17 AM
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Very interesting info packed in one thread ... you got me leaning more towards the Retro-Fit more than kit now .... I guess I'll have to read more on the conversion and learn about what's involved really with the conversion . From what I read here T Mo T had complications with opening up his headlights (cracked one) hope it doesn't happen too often with everyone . There's also lots of parts to taking apart & replacing the projectors ; I'll have to get more familiar with this too as there were pics in tT Mo T thread that I didn't understood ; being I'm a Noob in this department (not the fact he didn't do a good write-up) . I do have a friend who has a shop and has done several baking headlights . Is there anything particular that needs to be known with the 6's headlamp housing when baking to help him do the job problem-free ? I'll have to check the Stickys too , don't worry .

So far , what I remember is that DOT prj. are milky on the lense but forget how that translates in beam output and that ECE 46 were THE ones to go with as they were clear with a sorta circle on the lense and have better something I forget .

I've read HID Planet sells complete ECE kits that are supposed to be new (w/out the harness) but with the Hella balasts ; think I remembered reading people preferring another balast brand ... Bosch/AL as the name for some reason . Regarding the balasts ; I gather they are not LifeTime Warrantied ? but somehow being OEM they should last-problem free ... good for how long ? What about the igniters - are they better integrated to the balasts or separate ? Also their prj. are both left (or right ?) but lately someone here had one of each side from them . I think they are Bosch from BMWs , their prj.

Now for the bulbs ... I know they come in 4100K . Now how to these light up in hue ? I think I've read they were very white to some yellow and that you could augment the Ks . Is that possible , and what would you choose to get more white/hint blue ? How much do they retail for the bulbs ?
Then there's the cut-off shield (forgot proper term) that you bend to get more blue ... but I have still yet to understand properly as I haven't seen a picture of this thing yet . Just know it's more towards the rear where the bulb inserts ... but I think HID Planet already bends'em at the right angle for ya before shippin'em out ?

Man ! There's so much to know that I don't and now that I know about H1 Kits ; I want it right the first time ! Wish I knew someeone close that did it , maybe he'd be willing to do mine ! Originally in this thread we talked about Guinea Pig (he's from Montreal like me) but it seems he doesn't come here too too much anymore as it's been a loooong time I haven't seen him post . Anyone know if he did the retro-fit or the H1 Kit ?

Bless you zoomzoomfan for answering me , and now with more of my Noob questions There's quite a bunch to learn ... but I am willing to learn the most (like anything I get into) and I want the best the first time around .

What would be the ideal kit ... hmm ... retro kit hmm conversion (I'm trying to get used to this mumbo jumbo language hahah) that you would build with the actual parts available on the market zoomzoomfan / T Mo T ?? I would really like to know , with prices also and where to get'em .


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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 02:59 AM
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Thx for the reply zoomzoomfan .... while you were answering , I was editing/adding a question for you in the bottom of my previous post .

Already , so I gather (with your help heheh) that channt wasn't talking about that wire harness supplied with kit upon demand . OK also for that harness use , should I say USELESS then ?
I have the '05 CDN model , guess the '06's DRL is different 'cause they chose to use only one kind - the same as the ones that have the OEM HID option ; more cost effective ...

I noticed in your sig. (man is it ever hard to read haha) you used projectors + the Xtec 4500K with the 50w option (instead of the 35w) .
If you check my post in the Electrical section under the Apexcone thread ; there is a debate between two vendors about ''washout'' in hue color temp due to the increase from 35 to 50w . Can you give me some feedback on this since you have the 55w (I'm planning on getting the 50w 5000K for a hint of blue hue .... does yours have blue hue at all in the flicker when you look at the headlight housing ? - not the road !)
[/b]

well i dont what is the real word but basically i bought a wire with one female connector on one extrem and a ring on the other extrem. From your ballast you'd have a male connect that is supposed to be black, plug it to the female you just made and the ring to the ground. I am not an electrician, I know it works and you dont have to disable DRL.

basically when this is done, you have your HID on when you start the car and the handbrake is released.

I read on HID planet, they said that the ballast needs a certain amount voltage to start properly, if voltage is too low the ballast will shut off by itself and shorten the lifespan of the ballasts. Current are also lost from the battery or alternartor to the ligghting sytem.

If i remember the theory, it should be something like that.

I did this because I have a remote starter, and when i start the car the HID would flickers because of the DRL. Now when i start, HID is always on and I still have DRL but it is HID.

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Mazda 6 S 2004
Current Mods: AEM CAI, Silver Painted Calipers, 35% Windows Tint, Rotora Front & Rear Brake Pad, Starter, Low beam Meccatune 8300K, Fog Meccatune 6500K, Tanabe Strut Tower Bar, Grounded Chassis, HC3 Hurricane Voltage Stabilizer, Slotted F&R EBC Rotors, Chrome Clear Tailight, Side Skirt, Custom leather seat, Angel Eyes, Retrofit Bosch Projector, B-Quiet, Luminated Door sills, 18" Motegi DP12 hyperblack

Future (spring 07): Front Sport bumper, Mazdaspeed Springs (not installed), Koni Yellow shocks, engine mount.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 01:46 PM
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Hey Channt that's some set-up .... we should hook up say at the Julep ... I'd like to see your car & exchange some verbal ... you can PM me


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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 01:56 PM
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i dont mind but not this soon, i have to study like crazy... failed 3 midterm so far.

it isnt hard, just take take the black wire from the ballast and bolt it to the ground. i'll take some pictures.

Mazda 6 S 2004
Current Mods: AEM CAI, Silver Painted Calipers, 35% Windows Tint, Rotora Front & Rear Brake Pad, Starter, Low beam Meccatune 8300K, Fog Meccatune 6500K, Tanabe Strut Tower Bar, Grounded Chassis, HC3 Hurricane Voltage Stabilizer, Slotted F&R EBC Rotors, Chrome Clear Tailight, Side Skirt, Custom leather seat, Angel Eyes, Retrofit Bosch Projector, B-Quiet, Luminated Door sills, 18" Motegi DP12 hyperblack

Future (spring 07): Front Sport bumper, Mazdaspeed Springs (not installed), Koni Yellow shocks, engine mount.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 02:27 PM
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Ya , I'm sure it isn't .. just like to see how she shines your car haha and shoot the shit and check out your HID set-up esp.


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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
you got me leaning more towards the Retro-Fit more than kit now
[/b]
If that's the case, then my job here's done

Quote:
From what I read here T Mo T had complications with opening up his headlights (cracked one) hope it doesn't happen too often with everyone
[/b]
Umm, that's cuz t_mo_t is, well, t_mo_t... hehe, just kidding Tim, if you're reading this

Honestly, though, it doesn't happen to everyone.

Quote:
There's also lots of parts to taking apart & replacing the projectors ; I'll have to get more familiar with this too as there were pics in tT Mo T thread that I didn't understood
[/b]
Not really. Its actually much easier than it seems in the write-up. I think I did my retrofit in under 2 hours. It took me longer to install my HID kit the first time around.

Quote:
(not the fact he didn't do a good write-up)
[/b]
Tim did an awesome write-up... I'm still eternally endebted to him for teaching me what little I know.

Quote:
So far , what I remember is that DOT prj. are milky on the lense but forget how that translates in beam output and that ECE 46 were THE ones to go with as they were clear with a sorta circle on the lense and have better something I forget .
[/b]
Correct. The DOT projectors give a fuzzier cutoff and generally distribute the beam wider. The ECE projectors give a sharper cutoff and farther-reaching beam. Also, the shields inside the projector have steps that are of differing shapes. The ECE step is larger whereas the DOT step is shallower.

Quote:
I've read HID Planet sells complete ECE kits that are supposed to be new (w/out the harness) but with the Hella balasts ; think I remembered reading people preferring another balast brand ... Bosch/AL as the name for some reason.
[/b]
Yes, HIDPlanet.com projectors are new and are ECE. The Bosch AL and Hella ballasts are equally reliable, however the Bosch ballast fits directly in the recess at the bottom of the headlights, since that's also the OEM ballast for the 6.

Quote:
Regarding the balasts ; I gather they are not LifeTime Warrantied ? but somehow being OEM they should last-problem free ... good for how long ? What about the igniters - are they better integrated to the balasts or separate ?
[/b]
Unfortunately when you're buying a second-hand part, there's no warranty. That is, I think the ONLY, downside to doing a retrofit. However, they're OEM quality and that by default means that they're at least 10x more reliable than any aftermarket ballast can ever hope to be. Most people, when weighing the two options (OEM with no warranty vs. aftermarket with lifetime warranty) tend to opt for OEM with no warranty.

Good for how long? Depends I guess on how well you treat them. They could last you for years if given the right treatment.

Igniters, IMO, are better separate. It allows for a more flexible installation, and it allows the igniter to be placed closer to the bulb. But, honestly, it doesn't really make a difference.

Quote:
Also their prj. are both left (or right ?) but lately someone here had one of each side from them . I think they are Bosch from BMWs , their prj.
[/b]
I've heard all sorts of things, i.e. that they come left and left, or they come left and right. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a difference. If they come left and right, great. If not, they're just as easy to install and it makes no difference to the end-result.

Yes, the Bosch projectors on HIDPlanet.com are from the E46, which is the chassis code for the 1999-2003 BMW 3-series. The same projectors were also installed on Audi TT and a few other cars.





Quote:
Now for the bulbs ... I know they come in 4100K . Now how to these light up in hue ? I think I've read they were very white to some yellow and that you could augment the Ks . Is that possible , and what would you choose to get more white/hint blue ? How much do they retail for the bulbs ?
[/b]
If you're going the retrofit route, you'll need the best bulbs you can get your hands on, and that is the Phillips 85122 or 85122+. The 85122 burns at either 4100K or 4300K. The 85122+ burns at 5000K. Initially all these bulbs will appear pure white with a slight creaminess. This is what you want, trust me. You don't want your bulbs giving off a blue hue. I don't know why everyone wants blue lights. Not only are you getting less lumens from a blue light, but your eye works harder to see at night. Also, in inclement weather when the road surface is wet, blue light gets absorbed by the road and nothing bounces back into your eye. The result is that you see nothing. So much for having HIDs.

What you want to do is get a 4100K or 4300K bulb are allow it to colourshift (after 100 or 200 hours of use) to a slightly bluer hue. The colour you end up with is ideal IMO. And, you'll end up looking very OEMish, which is what you want... not ricer-ish.

Not sure what you mean by augmenting the K-value of the bulbs. Colourshifting happens in its own after 200 hours or so. That's about the only thing that can be done to the bulb.

Plus, remember that your projector will add colour to the cutoff, which will give the blue-purple effect everyone's trying to achieve. If you want more colour, you can always colour-mod the projector.

HIDPlanet sells the 85122's for $79 US. Just got me some the other day.

Quote:
Then there's the cut-off shield (forgot proper term) that you bend to get more blue ... but I have still yet to understand properly as I haven't seen a picture of this thing yet . Just know it's more towards the rear where the bulb inserts ... but I think HID Planet already bends'em at the right angle for ya before shippin'em out ?
[/b]
Yes, if you buy the HIDPlanet.com projectors, they're already colour-modded. Honestly, I wouldn't touch them after that. The Bosch projector doesn't lend itself well to too much modding. There are better projectors out there that can be colour modded with better results. Unfortunately, they're very hard to install in the 6 (i.e. no one's tried it )

Quote:
Man ! There's so much to know that I don't and now that I know about H1 Kits ; I want it right the first time ! Wish I knew someeone close that did it , maybe he'd be willing to do mine ! Originally in this thread we talked about Guinea Pig (he's from Montreal like me) but it seems he doesn't come here too too much anymore as it's been a loooong time I haven't seen him post . Anyone know if he did the retro-fit or the H1 Kit ?
[/b]
Well, you said it yourself... if you want it done right the first time, then you should stop looking at H1 kits right now. Retrofit is the way to do it right.

No idea about GuineaPig's setup.

Quote:
There's quite a bunch to learn ... but I am willing to learn the most (like anything I get into) and I want the best the first time around .
[/b]
Join HIDPlanet.com's forum and read the "university" section. Read the threads, see people's retrofit pics, ask questions. That's how I did it. Plus, it helps to have friends like t_mo_t and hieppo

Quote:
What would be the ideal kit ... hmm ... retro kit hmm conversion (I'm trying to get used to this mumbo jumbo language hahah) that you would build with the actual parts available on the market zoomzoomfan / T Mo T ?? I would really like to know , with prices also and where to get'em .
[/b]
Remember...

kit =
retrofit =

For the 6... the ideal setup IMHO is:

ECE E46 projectors... $99 a pair from HIDPlanet.com
Bosch AL ballasts... around $100 a pair on eBay, or check HIDPlanet.com forum's buy and sell section
Phillips 4300K bulbs... $80 a pair from HIDPlanet.com

HTH

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-23-2006, 06:38 PM
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Originally in this thread we talked about Guinea Pig (he's from Montreal like me) but it seems he doesn't come here too too much anymore as it's been a loooong time I haven't seen him post . Anyone know if he did the retro-fit or the H1 Kit ?
[/b]
Yep, I haven't been around for a while. Nightcourses and looking for a job have kept me pretty occupied. But even when I am around, I'm usually a lurker.

Anywho, my HIDs aren't retro-fitted. The option wasn't available when I installed mine. Honestly, unless I see a retro-fitted 6 and the benefits that it has, I don't see a reason for it. I've had friends check my lights at night (while driving in front of me) and no one complained about the glare. I did lower my lighting angle a slight bit.



Quote:
forget that... just do what i did:

link the HID ground directly to the battery. In this way you will have your HID always on when you start the car or when you turn on the lights. Also you'd be in compliance with canadian laws regarding DRL.

There will always be enough current to the ballast, therefore will extend your ballast lifetime more.
[/b]
My reservation about choosing this route is the premature burn-out of the bulb. I know that HID bulbs have a pretty long life-span (about 2500 hours) but using them as your day-running lights will kill them early. And at about $80 - $110 Cdn each, I want them to last.

I haven't had DRLs on my car for more than two years and no problems yet from the cops. If it's a cloudy day, I'll turn my lights on just to make sure. Another member, Spidy, recently made a great discovery with turning the integrated fogs into DRLs (Spidy's post). I've been wanting to do this mod, but haven't had the time.
)
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