I am having trouble finding what engines are compatible with my 04 6s. I am looking for alternatives as the mazda 6 engine is very expensive. I've heard zephyr and fusion, what years though?
2006-09 Fusion engines will work, they are already set up for VVT, you'll just need to swap some things like timing cover, oil pan, valve covers, exhaust manifolds, etc. A Lincoln Zephyr engine is identical, but might be harder to find since they only made the car one model year (2006). A v6 Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape engine should work too, just not sure if they use VVT or not.
Man, I'm glad I clicked on this thread even though I thought I knew what engines were good to swap into the 6. Looks like 09-12 engines are a hair different, probably just enough to make them not usable on the 6. Dammit.
06-08 Fusion engine:
09-12 Fusion engine:
I don't know all the details, but right off the bat I can see that the VVT actuator (oil control valve) is much higher on the head on the '12 engine, no longer in-line with the spark plugs. Clearly this is a big dealbreaker since the 6 valve covers will no longer install. Rats. The 09-12 engines seem to be in better supply, and cheaper overall. The $175 engine I was looking at is a 2012... so no dice for me.
Hey, beats bringing an engine home from Detroit only to find out it's the wrong one.
I knew a good write-up existed somewhere. Thanks for the link.
Man, with me now searching for 06-08 Fusion engines, the price about doubled for engines with 2x the miles than the 2011 engine I was considering. Grrr.
Yeah, I know. I unfortunately teased myself with this one, foolishly searching for a 2010 Fusion V6 rather than 2008.
So like I said, project cost just doubled. Still not crazy to spend $500 for a good engine, I was just mentally preparing for ~$200 rather than $500. My mistake though.
Has anyone ever looked into all the differences in the 09+ Fusion V6? Just curious if they can be overcome with a touch more labor (swap VVT setup, maybe a few more things?) or if it's way too different to even consider. I guess I'll do a quick google.
I imagine it's no easy task to swap over VVT if they modified it this much:
(from wikipedia):
"In second generation of the engine, it is updated to run on E85. Engine has an output of 240 bhp (179 kW; 243 PS) at 6550 rpm and 223 lb·ft (302 N·m) at 4300 rpm. Engine now includes Cam Torque Actuated Variable Cam Timing developed with Borg-Warner."
Sorry, this is likely old news for everyone else. I also just had the idea of using a Ford Five Hundred engine, but I see they are VVT-less. I guess I need to pony up at least $400 for a 06-08 Fusion V6.
The later engines are electrically operated VVT as opposed to the earlier engines that are hydraulically operated. Your 04 PCM can't control the new VVT. You would have to swap the heads and probably the timing chain pieces.
BTW, there are conflicting reports regarding the timing of this change. I have an 09 Fusion engine in my car (with hyd VVT) and have seen 2010s with the elec VVT.
Just curious where you are getting your information from. Both the fusion and 6 VVT operate via oil/electronic modulation.
There is no "electronic only" VVT actuation on the fusion. Just a different type of oil actuated VVT. Borg Warner makes the VVT that is used in the 3.0L Fusion. Maybe I missed something in the documentation. But that's what I had seen.
The difference in the fusion and the 6 is that in 2010 I believe is when they started using a different cam timing teeth compared to the 6. And that's why those later engines can't be directly swapped to the 6 with out some changes
Yeah, 09 seems to be the transition year, I see the VIN call-outs either 1 or G when looking up engines.
I'd be fine to swap over all the old VVT/chains from the 04 engine onto the 2011, but I'm guessing there is no oil ports in the 2011 heads to activate VVT, even if the setup did bolt on.
I'd buy the 2011 engine ($175) just for the ready-to-go short-block, but when I add on the cost of head gaskets, head bolts and all the extra time spent... doesn't really pan out compared to a ~$450 engine from 2008.
For now, might just spend the ~$100 my Montana van needs to get the transmission back in proper order, then at least I have a reliable beater again, no pressure on the 6 fix.
Anyone know why the valve covers from the 6 need to be used? I'm comparing the 6 covers to the Fusion covers, I can't see why the 6 ones are mandatory. PVC connections are different, but that's adaptable. I kinda like the look of the Fusion valve covers better, as I always toss the plastic engine cover if I buy a car that has one.
Only other difference I see are the coil connectors pointing down rather than toward the driver's side of the car. Seems there should be enough wiring slack to make the connection. Guess I won't know til I try. Maybe this is the issue.
The major differences are in the timing cover. The Mazda accessories (PS pump, Alternator, A/C compressor) will not bolt up to the front of the Fusion motor. You have to use the Mazda timing cover and you have to remove the valve covers to swap the timing cover. I don't recall if the Fusion valve covers bolt to the Mazda timing cover - but since you have it all apart, I see no reason to try. Keep it simple.
2009 Fusion Engine prior to stripping:
After stripping:
With all the Mazda bits swapped over (A/C deleted):
That was my reasoning on using the 6 valve covers. The wiring lays across them like it's supposed to. You have to pull the off to change the front timing cover over anyways.
so after taking a quick look at Wikipedia I noticed that the Ford Fusion v6 was never offered with a 5-speed manual transmission. With that said, how does swapping a fusion motor work when swapping it into a manual Mazda 6?
In the past i've done the auto-manual conversion on a 240sx. The process includes removing the torque converter and swapping the input shaft bearing out with a manual one.
Also, out of curiosity, where are you all sourcing your "Mazda" 3.0 motors? I've only seen a couple in listing within my area and in comparison to the Ford Fusion versions there is not much price difference, and SURELY not enough difference to warrant me doing the extra work.
Almost every engine you find will be from a auto-tragic. You have to swap the flex plate with the flywheel from the manual. There is no problem with the input shaft - the manual tranny bolts right up and does not utilize a pilot bearing. You have to swap the wiring harness - the auto harness is different.
My first 6 had its engine replaced by the person who sold it to me (local mechanic who bought it from a customer after precat failure). He paid $1400 for a leaky/ticky 6 engine with like 140k on it. I just paid $400 for a Fusion V6 with 12k on it.
But if 6 engines and Fusion engines are the same price near you, go for it. Definitely a bit less work.
i'll keep this in mind. I'm not looking for a motor at the moment. Crossing my fingers that I won't have to either. It's just nice to know the options I have is all.
I purchased this car so that i wouldn't have to deal with swaps or worrying. Sort of done with that motor swapping phase in my life, at least for the time being. However, i hear so many mazda 6 horror stories about blow back and oil consumption that it's always in the back of my head. I love Mazda and they've always treated me right in the past, I hope this 6 is no different. So far (aside from soft ass teins) I really like it.
Comparing them side-by-side (including the upper intake), I can't see how the Fusion stuff wouldn't fit under the hood of a 6. But for items like the PCV vents, wiring brackets, ignition coil connectors, it will be a slight chore to adapt the Fusion valve covers. I think I will give it a try though, I like the look much better, and these covers look like new with 12k on them compared to my ugly/stained/pitted covers with 130k+ on them.
Yeah, I know the timing cover is mandatory to swap, just curious if the Fusion valve covers could be used once the timing cover is swapped. From my quick comparison of the valve covers (holding a loose 6 valve cover over the top of a cover on the Fusion engine) it appears the outside profile is identical.
I'll give it a whirl when I start putting the new engine together. Purely a visual preference behind this potential "mod", although maybe I'll tell people it gains me 3 hp
I mean, just check out the pure power under the hood of this 07 Fusion!
(yes, it drives me nuts too that the oil cap was installed upside down... stupid dealer)
I just want to make sure of something since im no mechanic. Im hunting down a fusion motor now for my mazda 6s, and Im looking at fusion motors, why is the 8th VIN digit different. He told me if the motors are the same, the 8th digit should match. It looks like the mazda 3.0 is a D and the fusion 8th digit is a 1. Just looking for reassurance before I go pickup a motor.
VIN codes aren't going to be identical from Ford to Mazda. You definitely want the Fusion engine with VIN code 1. Before reading all the guides for this swap, I almost bought a 2010 engine. That would have been a very annoying mistake.
Yes, but I bet you can find an even better deal on a 2009 Ford Fusion engine. Unless you can really inspect that 03 engine closely, I'd shop around for a Fusion 3.0. A touch more labor to swap parts over, but worth it.
I think the deal I got was exceptional, but my 2009 Fusion 3.0 with 10k miles on it was $275.