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Old 10-13-2011, 09:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I haven't been following that exact procedure, but basically doing that to get any air bubbles out of the system. I'm going to replace the CTS this weekend and see of that fixes it.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:10 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Erratic Temps

Got CEL code for low temp coolant which was not surprising as the temp gauge in the car reads colder than normal (about the 1/4 position instead of mid-position). I replaced the thermostat with an aftermarket one from NAPA with no change on temperature gauge and got another CEL code for low temp coolant. I replaced the thermostat once again this time with a motorcraft RT1157 as recommended on this forum. Now when the car idles the temp is at mid-position however when I drive the temp drops down to the 1/4 position as before. Heater blows very hot air and hoses seem very hot to the touch. I have purged the system of air as evidenced by the need to add coolant multiple times until the level stabilizes. Was wondering if it could be a faulty CTS - I cleaned the contacts on both male and female connectors with no change in results. Was wondering if replacing the CTS solved your temp problems - greatly appreciate any info or suggestions. Thanks.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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^^ more often than not; both the thermostat and the CTS are wrongly accused. Supposedly (i have not verified this) the CTS wires are wht/red & Brn/red and they go into the cabin to the BCM. Because this is a "resistance" based measurement, any degradation in a connection between the CTS itself and the BCM and multiple systems are impacted;

A few things that come to mind are Fuel trims, warm up time, Open loop/closed loop operation, shift points, idle speed, and lord knows what else but you can bet it impact the emmsions when the run time doesn't correlate to all the other data. OH - FOR the SAKE OF CONFUSION; the WHITE/RED goes into a connected and comes out as LT Green/Black at the BCM!!

What I don't see is the values for COLD resistance 32F and resistance at 212F. With this, we stand a way better chance of knowing who is telling the truth.

I am all in favor of going with common sense. The engine is hot, its blowing hot air, and when you grab the hoses it burns. In short - data is being lost. Perhaps as a good faith effort I may measure mine at cold and hot temps and see what it is. Please don't wait up for me tho. I have no reason to tear it apart at this moment but will be doing spark plugs some time soon so I'll try and do it then.

For your own sanity; get an ohm meter and measure the sensor directly. Now crawl under the dash and measure those same leads at the BCM. 2H and 1M are the locations.

Good luck! and add tag me or PM so I keep up to date on this.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipper66 View Post
it is under the TB on a black plastic tube.



The green and red 2 wire clip in the picture is the CTS.
That picture pains me.. .. .. lol
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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PM from OP moved to forum. Hope thats OK!

Many thanks Final Impact - wow never considered that many variables! What bothers me is the fact that when stationary the temp gauge is right at the mid point. Even if the CTS is providing the wrong resistance while the car is stationary there is a definite change in the reading versus when the car is moving. What i dont understand is why there would be a change in resistance of the CTS and associated wiring when moving vs stationary? It is definitely not intermittent as it has been very repeatable. Any thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.


A couple things come to mind:
1) the system has air trapped. Try pulling the right front reservoir side up on block of wood to elevate it 3 to 5 inches and run it. Add more fluid if it will take it.

2) a bad connection + heat increases resistance. So, any bad connection could propagate this. Look for those near heat sources like the back of the engine. Follow TCS wires to every point including those inside the cabin. Unplug them and inspect them for corrosion. Clean anything found.

3) a bad ground. Inspect all engine grounds. Again, if the resistance changes it will impact this. Excessive heat changes resistance more than anything especially if joint or socket has corrosion in it heat will impact even more!Most senders of this type are changing about a 100 ohms from hot to cold (WAG).

Thats where I would begin.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default ECT Sensor Values

FYI - Found the following values for the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor:

Water temp Resistance (kohms)

68 F 35.48 to 39.20

158 F 5.07 to 5.60

176 F 3.65 to 4.02

Will be checking resistance on my sensor tonight.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerospaced View Post
FYI - Found the following values for the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor:

Water temp Resistance (kohms)

68 F 35.48 to 39.20

158 F 5.07 to 5.60

176 F 3.65 to 4.02

Will be checking resistance on my sensor tonight.
Where did you find that? Me wants to know! Also, what did you find?
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default ECT Sensor Values

Got the values from a Mazda factory troubleshooting guide - it contained similar data for many other sensors as well. Unfortunately got sidetracked - will try to take measurements this w/e and advise. Anyway to easily measure coolant temp with a thermometer without having to remove coolant temp sensor? Appreciate your thoughts.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Fixed Low Temp Problem - Coolant Temp Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerospaced View Post
Got the values from a Mazda factory troubleshooting guide - it contained similar data for many other sensors as well. Unfortunately got sidetracked - will try to take measurements this w/e and advise. Anyway to easily measure coolant temp with a thermometer without having to remove coolant temp sensor? Appreciate your thoughts.
Got a replacement coolant temp sensor on ebay for $34 which fixed the low temp coolant problem on my car. Temp gauge now consistently reads mid scale once engine is up to temp. Hard to believe the CTS could cause erratic readings as I would have thought the CTS would have failed as either an open or short circuit but not in between.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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[QOTE=aerospaced;3496391]Got a replacement coolant temp sensor on ebay for $34 which fixed the low temp coolant problem on my car. Temp gauge now consistently reads mid scale once engine is up to temp. Hard to believe the CTS could cause erratic readings as I would have thought the CTS would have failed as either an open or short circuit but not in between.[/QUOTE]

Good news! Thanks for sharing!

Sad that basic thermocouple can't be made to last. They run everything around us. Anything that has temperature control (even the hard drive in your computer reports the temperate) has them. Glad that fixed it.

I would like to find the print of info having the limits. Could you recite page number and PN of the manual? Thanks! Was it a Mazda Manual?

JJD952
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