Poor torque in low rpm

[obrt]

Hi,

I recently bought a mazda 6 CD 136, 2003, 96tkm and I already have a problem, I think

For all I know, it should deliver max torque at 2000 rpm (310 Nm), but it simply won't go before it gets to 3000 (it pulls ok from 3k to 4k then loses it again). More worryingly, when I drive uphill and change to a higher gear, and the revs drop and the car won't accelerate. Instead it starts losing rpms.

I could go up a hill near here in third in a car with less horses, less torque, and about the same weight. Now, I can barely climb there in first. I tried to spin the wheels in first with DSC off, but it would do it only on gravel, never on tarmac.

The engine leaves some black smoke from 4k to 5k, but I rarely go there.

Is turbo dead?

Is it possible that the guy before drove it too mildly, to put it that way, and that the everything inside has some kind of residues (a non-mazda mechanic told me that).

[G-star]

QUOTE (obrt @ Jun 1 2009, 01:05 AM)

Hi,

I recently bought a mazda 6 CD 136, 2003, 96tkm and I already have a problem, I think

For all I know, it should deliver max torque at 2000 rpm (310 Nm), but it simply won't go before it gets to 3000 (it pulls ok from 3k to 4k then loses it again). More worryingly, when I drive uphill and change to a higher gear, and the revs drop and the car won't accelerate. Instead it starts losing rpms.

I could go up a hill near here in third in a car with less horses, less torque, and about the same weight. Now, I can barely climb there in first. I tried to spin the wheels in first with DSC off, but it would do it only on gravel, never on tarmac.

The engine leaves some black smoke from 4k to 5k, but I rarely go there.

Is turbo dead?

Is it possible that the guy before drove it too mildly, to put it that way, and that the everything inside has some kind of residues (a non-mazda mechanic told me that). [/b]

Don't push you engine to much above 4000 RPM. Sounds like your turbo isn't working, would go to a dealer and let the read out the ECU and hope your turbo isn't dead or you will have big costs.

[obrt]

Thank you very much You were right, turbo wasn't spinning at all, but it is now, and very much so.

Today I went to my good old mechanic. He is not an authorised mazda repairman but he's really good. He was sucking some pipes and hoses, touching something with his fingers and generally behaving strange for about two minutes or so and then he realised that two out of five small tubes coming out of the air filter were broken and that the rubber hoses were hanging loose. That caused the turbo valve to stay closed all the time because there was no suction from the air filter to activate it.

He cut off two small brass pipes from an old carburettor and threaded them on one end. He made threaded holes in the air filter cover where the old pipes were and screwed the new, brass ones in, attached the hoses and that was it. He told me to go and drive gently around a bit to make sure the turbo is lubricated (he said that some other hose for lubrication was attached all right, but just in case) and to give it some time to "spin in". I still don't know how long was the turbo idle. I could tell the difference right away. The whole thing took about an hour and 30 EUR. (that's somewhat reduced because I'm an old customer and have a discount). Now I know why I've been repairing all my cars there in the last 12 years.

Soon he'll start a tips and tricks - the old school way section on a website. I'll leave a message here when it starts.

I can post a pic of which exact pipes were broken if someone needs it.

Sorted

Now I have only the centre console bulbs left. They are dead and the new ones are nowhere to be found. Even at mazda they told me that the unit is not user serviceable and that they have no spare ones to sell.

[MickD]

Sorry for reopening an old post, but I have exactly this problem, the only difference is i only have one of the vacuum pipes broken, it's into Mazda on Saturday for the intercooler recall, so will see what they can do, if's its too expensive then I'll have to so it myself.

I'm so glad i cae across this post, been pulling my hair out for the cause of the lack of power.

Mick.



QUOTE (obrt @ Jun 2 2009, 05:12 PM)

Thank you very much You were right, turbo wasn't spinning at all, but it is now, and very much so.

Today I went to my good old mechanic. He is not an authorised mazda repairman but he's really good. He was sucking some pipes and hoses, touching something with his fingers and generally behaving strange for about two minutes or so and then he realised that two out of five small tubes coming out of the air filter were broken and that the rubber hoses were hanging loose. That caused the turbo valve to stay closed all the time because there was no suction from the air filter to activate it.

He cut off two small brass pipes from an old carburettor and threaded them on one end. He made threaded holes in the air filter cover where the old pipes were and screwed the new, brass ones in, attached the hoses and that was it. He told me to go and drive gently around a bit to make sure the turbo is lubricated (he said that some other hose for lubrication was attached all right, but just in case) and to give it some time to "spin in". I still don't know how long was the turbo idle. I could tell the difference right away. The whole thing took about an hour and 30 EUR. (that's somewhat reduced because I'm an old customer and have a discount). Now I know why I've been repairing all my cars there in the last 12 years.

Soon he'll start a tips and tricks - the old school way section on a website. I'll leave a message here when it starts.

I can post a pic of which exact pipes were broken if someone needs it.

Sorted

Now I have only the centre console bulbs left. They are dead and the new ones are nowhere to be found. Even at mazda they told me that the unit is not user serviceable and that they have no spare ones to sell. [/b]

[obrt]

QUOTE (MickD @ Nov 30 2009, 01:09 PM)

Sorry for reopening an old post, but I have exactly this problem, the only difference is i only have one of the vacuum pipes broken, it's into Mazda on Saturday for the intercooler recall, so will see what they can do, if's its too expensive then I'll have to so it myself.

I'm so glad i cae across this post, been pulling my hair out for the cause of the lack of power.

Mick.[/b]

Hi MickD,

Good luck with it and please let us know what happened, and of course, if you need any help.

[MickD]

Hi Orbt,

In an earlier post you said you could post a pic of the offending pipes, would you still be able to do this please? just so i know were talking about the same pipes, also have you a pic of the repaired pipes, just so I know what i need to do if i do repair it myself.

Cheers,

Mick.

[obrt]

QUOTE (MickD @ Dec 1 2009, 07:38 AM)

Hi Orbt,

In an earlier post you said you could post a pic of the offending pipes, would you still be able to do this please? just so i know were talking about the same pipes, also have you a pic of the repaired pipes, just so I know what i need to do if i do repair it myself.

Cheers,

Mick.[/b]

Hi Mick,

Unfortunately, I'm down with flu right now, but as soon as I get out I'll take the pictures. The broken pipes were the top ones. Hoses were just fine, but they drew "false air" (from the outside instead the filter). Are there any loose hoses around the air filter?

As for the threading, you can buy the tool for it anywhere and it's not expensive at all. It looks like this

(http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2...ding-Tools.jpg)

New pipes were from a carburetor (like the brass one in the front http://elescooterparts.com/parts/gas/carb/...ual/PZ19MB.JPG) but any piece of metal tube will do if it is the right size. Maybe even copper tubes from a CPU heatsink? He used a golf mk2 carb and it had three of those, I think.

The pieces before installing looked something like this (http://www.signaturehardware.com/ima...g/1/cs-035.jpg) only with threads on one end and the thicker bit on the other. My mechanic also took some teflon tape (very thin tape that plumbers use) and put it around the threads for tighter fit, just don't overdo it. Two or three times around will do the trick.

As soon as I get out, I'll post the photos.

[MickD]

Thanks, From your description and photo's of the part needed to fix this, I'm pretty sure it's the same on mine, I'll see what Mazda say and how much they will charge to repair it.

Thanks again.

Hope you're feeling better soon.

Mick.

[MickD]

Hi,

I've got a couple of pics of the pipes I'm talking about, are they the same ones you had trouble with?

Mick.

[obrt]

QUOTE (MickD @ Dec 1 2009, 12:22 PM)

Hi,

I've got a couple of pics of the pipes I'm talking about, are they the same ones you had trouble with?

Mick.[/b]

Hi,

Yes, that's the one. You have only one broken, right? The other one broken on my car was the one more to the right. Your pipe is obviously not where it should be and the hose is taking air from the outside, so there is no vacuum to activate the turbo valve. You have a plain diesel power as a result.

Somehow mark which hose goes to which pipe and remove the air filter cover all together (it is hinged, but can be removed). Don't break any more pipes. Carefully remove any plastic bits and residue from the hose with the broken pipe in it. Before you start threading anything, make sure your new metal pipe will fit the hose. Be careful when choosing the right thread size for the hole. You'll see that the plastic on the cover is thicker where the hole is, so the new pipe should fit in nice and firm. You can measure the wall thickness and make the pipe go in as much as possible. Clean everything and watch out for small bits of plastic getting places. It's ultra simple. Just be patient and take it slowly and you'll be surprised.

The only way this can happen, in my opinion, is when they open the cover to change the air filter at the service. The previous owner spent some serious money to get it repaired and couldn't get it going right regardless. In the end, he sold it well under any kind of normal price because it was "broken". The next thing for him to do was to change the turbo and he wasn't convinced it would help and was not willing to spend more money so he gave it away cheap just to get rid of it. How come the Mazda services are not aware of it and paying more attention, I don't know. It's downright sad. Long live the internet

You won't believe the difference once you're done. Still, don't push it hard for a 100 km or so. The turbo hasn't been spinning at all for some time and it needs to get lubricated first.

It's been half a year and 20.000 kilometers since I repaired it and it still runs like that very day. So it's most certainly a fix.